Ranged Opportunity Attacks?

[chorolus]

I'm working on a bit of an experimental character for my wife to play...one who focuses on ranged thrown weapons. Most likely going to be a Ranger hybrid class, but we're still debating what to hybridize with...rogue perhaps...

So my question is this: can ranged attacks be made AS opportunity attacks? Can any combination of feats/abilities/powers accomplish this goal?

Her character concept is that of a ninja-type warrior who wields twin Krull-style dagger/shiruken-like weapons (technically classified as a throwing axe for combat mechanics purposes...the actual appearance of the weapon is pretty much fluff). We're planning to give her the Deadly Axe and Reaving Axe Student/Slayer feats, meaning her throwing (axes) are considered high-crit weapons and every time she crits she also knocks them prone and is granted an opportunity attack if they attempt to stand before the end of her next turn. Realistically speaking, throwing a weapon takes about as much time/reflex ability as swinging one (in my opinion at least), but I'm not sure if there is any way to do so legally in DnD...

Another somewhat related question...can normal weapons be thrown? I.E. throwing a Scimitar, or a Double-Axe, or other weapon around, and treating it as a heavy thrown weapon? I'm imagining her weapons as something like 3-4 medium-weight, sabre-like blades that are connected at the 'handle', and that have some rather nasty/jagged blade edges on them...so mechanic-wise they could possibly be considered a sabre, axe, a light or heavy blade...we're trying to determine if any other weapon-type damage mechanics would be better then the throwing axe class... If we can find a way to perform ranged Opportunity Attacks, then we could call it a heavy blade of some kind, she may be able to toss Heavy Blade Opportunity in the mix to really take advantage of her Twin Strike throwing attacks.

Any thoughts/suggestions? =]

--edit--
Forgot to add...but it's possible that me and our DM are simply misinterpreting the rules regarding OA's...the book mentions that 'actions of opportunity' can include various actions, 'basic attacks' are one of the actions you can take...so strictly speaking is a ranged attack a 'basic attack'?

 

[Obryn]

The Sharpshooter Ranger PP has a class feature which lets you make OA's with a ranged weapon.

In general, you can't do so. If you have a thrown weapon in your hand, you can only make an OA with a melee attack with that weapon.

Throwing 1-H weapons is, I think, a Barbarian PP. But I could be wrong.

While there are many types of opportunity actions, the only one you can normally take is an opportunity attack. And that's always a melee basic attack, unless you have a feat, feature, or power that says otherwise.

-O

 

[Aulirophile]

I'm working on a bit of an experimental character for my wife to play...one who focuses on ranged thrown weapons. Most likely going to be a Ranger hybrid class, but we're still debating what to hybridize with...rogue perhaps...

So my question is this: can ranged attacks be made AS opportunity attacks? Can any combination of feats/abilities/powers accomplish this goal?

Her character concept is that of a ninja-type warrior who wields twin Krull-style dagger/shiruken-like weapons (technically classified as a throwing axe for combat mechanics purposes...the actual appearance of the weapon is pretty much fluff). We're planning to give her the Deadly Axe and Reaving Axe Student/Master feats, meaning her throwing (axes) are considered high-crit weapons and every time she crits she also knocks them prone and is granted an opportunity attack if they attempt to stand before the end of her next turn. Realistically speaking, throwing a weapon takes about as much time/reflex ability as swinging one (in my opinion at least), but I'm not sure if there is any way to do so legally in DnD...

Another somewhat related question...can normal weapons be thrown? I.E. throwing a Scimitar, or a Double-Axe, or other weapon around, and treating it as a heavy thrown weapon? I'm imagining her weapons as something like 3-4 medium-weight, sabre-like blades that are connected at the 'handle', and that have some rather nasty/jagged blade edges on them...so mechanic-wise they could possibly be considered a sabre, axe, a light or heavy blade...we're trying to determine if any other weapon-type damage mechanics would be better then the throwing axe class... If we can find a way to perform ranged Opportunity Attacks, then we could call it a heavy blade of some kind, she may be able to toss Heavy Blade Opportunity in the mix to really take advantage of her Twin Strike throwing attacks.

Any thoughts/suggestions? =]

--edit--
Forgot to add...but it's possible that me and our DM are simply misinterpreting the rules regarding OA's...the book mentions that 'actions of opportunity' can include various actions, 'basic attacks' are one of the actions you can take...so strictly speaking is a ranged attack a 'basic attack'?

Rules text at the bottom, italicized.

The only thing that will let you do exactly what you describe is MCing or Hybriding with Seeker, and taking the Seven Fates Archer Paragon Path. The level 16 feature will make it work.

Remember that opportunity attacks are a kind of opportunity action. But an Opportunity Attack is a specific thing, as outlined below.

Melee Basic Attack: An opportunity attack is a melee basic attack.

Able to Attack: You can’t make an opportunity attack unless you are able to make a melee basic attack and you can see your enemy.

 

[Aulirophile]

The Sharpshooter Ranger PP has a class feature which lets you make OA's with a ranged weapon.

In general, you can't do so. If you have a thrown weapon in your hand, you can only make an OA with a melee attack with that weapon.

Throwing 1-H weapons is, I think, a Barbarian PP. But I could be wrong.

While there are many types of opportunity actions, the only one you can normally take is an opportunity attack. And that's always a melee basic attack, unless you have a feat, feature, or power that says otherwise.

-O

Sharpshooter only works with bows and crossbows.

You're probably thinking of this Barbarian feat.

Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Barbarian
Benefit: You can use any one-handed off-hand weapon as a heavy thrown weapon. Normal range for weapons you wield this way is 5 squares, and long range is 10 squares.

 

[chorolus]

Rules text at the bottom, italicized.

The only thing that will let you do exactly what you describe is MCing or Hybriding with Seeker, and taking the Seven Fates Archer Paragon Path. The level 16 feature will make it work.

Remember that opportunity attacks are a kind of opportunity action. But an Opportunity Attack is a specific thing, as outlined below.

Melee Basic Attack: An opportunity attack is a melee basic attack.

Able to Attack: You can’t make an opportunity attack unless you are able to make a melee basic attack and you can see your enemy.

That's what I thought, the book does state 'melee' attack specifically but a few of our players were arguing that melee and ranged in this case were interchangable...

So, the Sharpshooter Ranger PP, as well as a MC/hybrid Seeker could pull this combo off though? So pretty much, she'd be a bit sub-optimal till lvl 16? ...if our game even gets that far...many I've been in so far have fizzled out around lvl 10ish, lol.

So far as my other question regarding tossing weapons around, anyone? I can't seem to find anything in the Players Handbook, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place(s).

 

[Aulirophile]

That's what I thought, the book does state 'melee' attack specifically but a few of our players were arguing that melee and ranged in this case were interchangable...

So, the Sharpshooter Ranger PP, as well as a MC/hybrid Seeker could pull this combo off though? So pretty much, she'd be a bit sub-optimal till lvl 16? ...if our game even gets that far...many I've been in so far have fizzled out around lvl 10ish, lol.

So far as my other question regarding tossing weapons around, anyone? I can't seem to find anything in the Players Handbook, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place(s).

I think they'd just count as improvised thrown weapons, all of which are no proficiency bonus 1d4. Terrible, in other words. That chart is on PHB 219.

Oh! Heavy Blades can get the Farbond Spellblade magic enchantment. Acts as a heavy thrown weapon. Locks you into that one enchant, of course.

 

[Mentat55]

You could go a thrown weapon seeker. I think they are Wis/Str focused, and if you use heavy thrown weapons, you could make a melee basic attack with the throwing weapon in your hand when you get the chance to take an OA -- and the rest of the time you could make ranged attacks as a seeker.

 

[Nightson]

Give her a special houserule feat, problem solved.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Sharpshooter only works with bows and crossbows.

You're probably thinking of this Barbarian feat.

Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Barbarian
Benefit: You can use any one-handed off-hand weapon as a heavy thrown weapon. Normal range for weapons you wield this way is 5 squares, and long range is 10 squares.

Right, this will work well, it just requires the player to devote 2 feats, which really isn't all that terrible since the barbarian MC feat gives you some useful stuff anyway.

In general the problem with ranged OAs is they would just be insanely effective. I could see creating a special variation of a power that allows an RBA against a foe that is hit with it, but its going to have to be at least an encounter power. Being able to do that round after round is just too good.

 

[chorolus]

It may be an effective combat build...eventually...but once again, it doesn't seem like the build would be significantly more effective then any other typical Striker-character, and would probably actually be much weaker than others until until lvl 16ish when she gets her OA gravy.

Another part of her character concept was the idea that she would MC as a swordmage and take the Improved Swordbond, so that (true to the Krull-like spirit of the character) whenever she throws the weapons, they return to her hands again after the attack. To prevent this ranged Opportunity Attack focus from being too effective, we could make her weapon-return action count as a minor action or some such--so that she can only make an OA once per round, whereas melee characters don't really have a set numerical limit per round...well they can make an OA once per enemy turn, so I guess they can make as many OA's as there are enemies, but under normal circumstances you are only ever in melee range of one, occasionally 2-3ish foes at a time, so one per round would scale fairly by my book.


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Well, so far we've got a Ranger that is probably hybridized as a Seeker (which Seekers seem to play similar to a ranged Ranger anyways from the looks of things in the character builder). She could start with the Windrise Ports background, allowing her to MC as both a Swordmage and a Barbarian--allowing her to take the Improved Swordbond and off-hand throwing feats. What's the name of that Barbarian feat? I can't find it in the feat list.

Seems like a pretty fun character: she would be able to use ranged Twin Strikes(even without the Barbarian feat, so long as she uses off-hand throwing weapons right, like Throwing Axes?), and once she hits lvl 16 she would be able to get the Ranged Opportunity Attack feature from her Seeker PP.


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So far as deciding what her weapon-type could be, I found this quote from the following website:

Weapons :: d20srd.org
"Thrown Weapons
Daggers, clubs, shortspears, spears, darts, javelins, throwing axes, light hammers, tridents, shuriken, and nets are thrown weapons. The wielder applies his or her Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons (except for splash weapons). It is possible to throw a weapon that isn’t designed to be thrown (that is, a melee weapon that doesn’t have a numeric entry in the Range Increment column on Table: Weapons), but a character who does so takes a -4 penalty on the attack roll...Such a weapon has a range increment of 10 feet"


Now, it looks like the website is more of a DnD 3x resource, so some of it is probably incorrect information so far as 4E is concerned...But basically, she could use a weapon with the throwing subtype and is classified as a light blade, i.e. shiruken/dagger/boomarang, or a throwing axe, with no penalties. Or she could attempt to use a weapon that 'isn't designed for throwing' and impose a -4 to her attack rolls as a penalty? Is that rule the same for 4E?


If that's the case, things could get pretty nasty if she threw a Khopesh around, allowing her to use HBO and Deadly Axe, along with the Reaving Axe Student/Master feats. Granted, she would be attacking with a -4 to-hit deficit, but if she hits Weapon Expertise early on, and keeps her attacking stat(Str or Dex) maxed as much as possible, she could come close to countering that penalty...she could also get the feats that grant +hit bonuses to Opportunity Attacks/etc to help with her out too.

--edit--
Realized what a wall-of-text this post looked like and shortened it down a little =p