D&D (2024) Ranger: is Horde Breaker a bit too good for level 3?

[billd91]

But if you use your action to cast a spell, and an enemy uses their reaction to run on your turn

You could hit with a reaction on your turn, and then horde breaker.

That's a lot of If's. But technically possible.

You could, conceivably, use it on a reaction on your own turn such as in the example you lay out. But horde breaker is explicit in that it only applies once during your turn. So if you used it during an attack action, you can't use it during your reaction later in your turn. Or, if you used it in a reaction early in your turn, you can't then use it during your attack action.

Nutshell version: In other words, it doesn't matter how you get that attack that triggers horde breaker - attack action or reaction that involves an attack - you only use horde breaker once on your turn.

 

[Ancalagon]

I beg to differ. When you take a reaction it becomes your turn to act. Or re-act.

I disagree. if you get a reaction, you get to do something during someone's else turn (unless the reaction-triggering thing occurred during your turn).

It is your "turn" to act in the common parlance meaning of "turn", but it is not your turn in the game meaning of turn.

 

[el-remmen]

Use a heavy crossbow to push one creature next to another, then get another attack.

Wouldn't the loading quality of the hvy x-bow interfere with that?

 

[mellored]

Wouldn't the loading quality of the hvy x-bow interfere with that?

You would also need Crossbow expertise, yes.

 

[MarkB]

Except it's p. 127 says 'once on each of your turns'. It's not once per round or once on your initiative.

Because it's technically possible to have two turns in a round, via the 17th level Thief subclass ability Thief's Reflexes, so they have to word it that way to account for all the Ranger Hunter 3 / Rogue Thief 17 combo builds out there.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Then I invite you to read the text for Sneak Attack on p.129. There is no mention of Reaction. It's just 'once per turn'.

Exactly. Anyone’s turn, not necessarily your turn, as the other ability specifies. So if you use your reaction to attack during someone else’s turn you can qualify for sneak attack, even if you already used sneak attack on your turn.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

Then I invite you to read the text for Sneak Attack on p.129. There is no mention of Reaction. It's just 'once per turn'.

This may have already been covered, but the reason Rogues can Sneak Attack twice per round is because the text says "once per turn" whereas Horde Breaker says "once on your turn".

Rogues can specifically use Sneak Attack on someone else's turn, so it works differently than Horde Breaker.

 

[Mistwell]

On the larger question of whether Horde Breaker is too good. No, it's not too good, but I do think it's a nice feature. I don't think it will come up as often as Colossus Slayer because it's less common to have two creatures within 5' of your first target and in reach of your current weapon. I'd probably choose Colossus Slayer more often unless my part was very well organized to push and pull foes around to get you more opportunities to use it, or you were in a den of a large quantity of lesser foes like kobolds or goblins.

 

[Ashrym]

You would also need Crossbow expertise, yes.

Because it's technically possible to have two turns in a round, via the 17th level Thief subclass ability Thief's Reflexes, so they have to word it that way to account for all the Ranger Hunter 3 / Rogue Thief 17 combo builds out there.

We're no longer talking about a 3rd level character in either scenario.

OT: No, I don't think horde breaker is "too good".

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

On the larger question of whether Horde Breaker is too good. No, it's not too good, but I do think it's a nice feature.

Very much this. Instead of the almost certain 1d8 of Colossus Slayer, you're choosing the ability that might not trigger, but does a lot more when it does trigger (and that feels good, as well as it triggering even if you miss the initial target).

Now, specifically at lv3, the low hitpoints of enemies might see a brief window where it can actually drop someone on the extra hit. But as DnD is about focusfiring one target down rather than splitting up your damage, later on, Horde Breaker couldn't be considered twice as effective as Colossus Slayer even if it triggered 100% of the time.

Anyway, an extra attack has a lot of potential, and now that Hunters can switch between these two on a short rest, Horde Breaker should be a nice option if you know you're going to run into ratling sewers or such. And of course, if you are wielding a heavy weapon (d10/2d6) and you know your party has grappling/forced movement in it, this becomes a lot more tempting as a primary option.