OneDnD Ranger playtest discussion

Again Volley is way better than Conjure Barrage by a lot.

Volley was just the better of two bad options. Volley was ok.

The ranger was "strong". It had a ton of exploits. Conjure spells. GWM/SS abuse stacked on Hunter's mark. Dipping into rogue or fighter easy.

The rangers in my group were strong without exploits.

To the rest. I refuse to look at numbers at this time. Seemless is more important here. Numbers can be tweaked later.
The ranger in 5e, without tasha, though in no way underpowered is just not really fun:
Twf with animal companion :/.
Hunters mark and twf first round :/.
Melee and concentration :/.
Swift quiver and hinter's mark :/.
Multiattack* feature and extra attack or twf or the hunter level 3 feature that gives an extra attack :/ :/ :/ :/.

All needlessly annoying. The ranger in the playtest seems to not have those issues.

*Edit: with multiattack I meant whirlwind in this case!
 
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Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Twf with animal companion :/
That is a TWF problem.

Hunters mark and twf first round :/.
See above

Melee and concentration
So you want buffs that cant be knocked off and stack them? That's really strong.
Swift quiver and hinter's mark :/.
Stacking combat buffs?
Multiattack feature and extra attack or twf or the hunter level 3 feature that gives an extra attack :/ :/ :/ :/.
You want to be able to Whirlwind attack, Horderbreaker attack, Extra Attack, and TWF Attack with one action?
 

So you want buffs that cant be knocked off and stack them? That's really strong.

Stacking combat buffs?

You want to be able to Whirlwind attack, Horderbreaker attack, Extra Attack, and TWF Attack with one action?

No. But if a class relies so much on one ability, that ability should stick.

And no, I don't want it. This is why I welcome the removel of such a crappy feature that in all relevant cases lowers your damage output.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
No. But if a class relies so much on one ability, that ability should stick.

And no, I don't want it. This is why I welcome the removel of such a crappy feature that in all relevant cases lowers your damage output.
But that's the problem. Rangers shouldn't be relying solely on Hunters Mark and trying to stack on everything and always have it up..

The Ranger's other spells should be better and be viable options which support other builds. Bring back Bladethrist for TWF rangers. Magic Fang for Beastmasters. Fix Barkskin for GWF rangers. Create low level arrow spells for archery rangers.

As a DM, I converted a bunch of old ranger spells and many of the problems went away.
 


At least they have expertise now. And at least abilities that sounded fun on paper but were very unfun in play are removed.

I think the tasha's primal awareness is missing though.
The Tasha's Ranger has Expertise. And the Ranger has lurched from "interesting fluff, awful mechanics" to "boring fluff, competent mechanics". And while a D+ is a better grade than an F it's still bad. (And yes Primal Awareness is missing - it's far too fluffy and interesting for this mechanics-only offering)
To reiterate once again: the spell is bad (as most other ranger combat spells) , but the ability it replaced was even worse.
No it wasn't assuming we're talking about Volley. The old Multiattack cost no resources rather than burning a third level spell slot. It didn't have to target your friends if they were in the hideously big area. It made use of things like your fighting style, your feats, your equipment, and even your primary stat. And, for that matter, Hunter's Mark.

Volley was worth using if there were four enemies within a 20ft area, and worth considering if there were three. How often this came up was DM dependent.

Meanwhile Conjure Barrage gets none of those benefits. It just hits a wide area for 3d8 damage which is ... not quite enough to kill an orc on average rolls if the orc fails its saving throw. It's therefore much more niche thanks to the friendly fire issue. And while it can hordebreak the wizard's fireball is easier to use, harder to save against, and does more average damage on a passed saving throw than conjure barrage does on a failed one. So you're trying to do with your third level slot things wizards are better at doing with theirs.

Volley is more flexible and more generally useful than conjure barrage would be even if you didn't have to burn a third level slot every time you wanted to cast it (or a lower level slot for significantly less damage).
Hunters mark costs your concentration as does swift quiver... So bad synergy.
And fixing this is a genuine improvement.
So even if the numbers are not correct now, at least the chassis works much more seemlessly.
The problem is that there's nothing interesting on that chassis. The first ability you get that says ranger rather than fighter or druid to me is 'Roamin' ' at level 7 I think.
Numbers can still be balanced.
But the fluff is also needed. The PHB ranger was all ribbon ability fluff. This thing is all bland mechanics.
 

The ranger in 5e, without tasha, though in no way underpowered is just not really fun:
Twf with animal companion :/.
The animal companion on its own was a problem. It turned your game into an escort mission.
Hunters mark and twf first round :/.
Melee and concentration :/.
Swift quiver and hinter's mark :/.
Multiattack feature and extra attack or twf or the hunter level 3 feature that gives an extra attack :/ :/ :/ :/.
Agreed. This part has been fixed - at the cost of pure blandness. The ranger here is now just a hybrid.
All needlessly annoying. The ranger in the playtest seems to not have those issues.
It just lacks anything interesting or rangerish. It's a cube of tofu.
 



In cooking, you need to get the base right first and then add some spice.
And this isn't cooking.

Also classes aren't a base. The core mechanics are a base. And testing a recipie should include some spice even if the proportions are off. Right now what we're being presented with is a meal where everything is boiled to a mush.
 

And this isn't cooking.

Also classes aren't a base. The core mechanics are a base. And testing a recipie should include some spice even if the proportions are off. Right now what we're being presented with is a meal where everything is boiled to a mush.

You started with tofu...

Of course classes are the base (for that class).
And I don't disagree with you. It needs some flavour. But I don't want the mechanical mess that os the 5e ranger, especially the hunter subclass.
 



You started with tofu...

Of course classes are the base (for that class).
And I don't disagree with you. It needs some flavour. But I don't want the mechanical mess that os the 5e ranger, especially the hunter subclass.
No one wants that. But that's not the only trap to avoid. This is falling into a different one. It's Yet Another Caster with almost no reason to exist other than to fill in a square. It's the PHB Sorcerer
 


But you can make a palatable meal with some spice here.
What you have here is the equivalent of an MRE. I mean sure it qualifies as food with or without spice but it's not exactly appetising.
Spoiled meat stays spoiled meat.
And as the 5e ranger, it might taste good at first, but after a while your get stomach aches...
No one is advocating for every ability being a ribbon ability.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
But you can make a palatable meal with some spice here.

Spoiled meat stays spoiled meat.
And as the 5e ranger, it might taste good at first, but after a while your get stomach aches...

But the playtest ranger looke like they got not spoiled but not gourmet meat then forgot to go to the seasoning aisle.

So it's edible now but bland.
 


Remathilis

Legend
I’m fine with access to magic, especially magic that isn’t just spells. It’s spellcasting that doesn’t fit the ranger archetype.
But that's the trick, it's ALL spells.

Spells are what they use to cover 90%* of magical effects. It's why many invocations end up being access to a spell (slow, bane, mage armor). It's why a robust psionics was abandoned for psionic spells and subclasses. Spells are a known quantity, an understood mechanic, and an easy way to expand the game later. In short, they are the hammer WotC has elected to use, and everything else is just a nail.

If it helps, think of spells akin to 4e powers, save they are explicitly magical.
 


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