D&D (2024) Ranger playtest discussion

[TheSword]

What's the virtue of a ranger existing at all? Flavour and fun.

For me there are a number of reasons I want a spell-less ranger including:

• For the archetype - as mentioned both Aragorn and Katniss were and Drizzt for all practical purposes was. The archetype is not that of a caster
• Because I want to see more interesting and varied characters rather than the same cookie cutter abilities (and ones that do better than the 2014 ranger)
• Because I sometimes want to run more varied campaigns and this includes low to no magic and at the moment the range of non-casters is extremely narrow.

(And @TheSword I don't think "Page not found" was meant to be a joke about ranger spell progression but the attachment doesn't seem to work for me?)

I appreciate that… it’s a fighter now. Drizzt is predominantly a fighter that’s been decided a while back. Aragorn is a fighter, Katniss is definitely a fighter. They are all fighters. (Though you can skin Aragon as a ranger with his herbcraft and elven Magic)

 

[TheSword]

Yes that is half round down - gaining new slots on even-numbered levels starting with 2nd, exactly like I described. The table from the UA is half round up - gaining new slots on odd-numbered levels starting with 1st, which it now shares with the Artificer.

At fifth level a ranger has the spellcasting of a 3rd level caster - for both tables. How is that half round down? At 9th level they have the casting of a 5th level caster. I’ve just posted you the tables.

 

[Minigiant]

The same logic applies to Fighters, Rogues, etc. Especially Rogues. If we apply this logic, the default subclass for all Rogues should be Arcane Trickster, and other kinds of Rogues should be seen as weird freaks.

The Rogue's iconic features are clearly defined and allowed to be pursued fully via their skills. Stealth, lockpicking, and trap disarming have clear rules and don't need magic to be done.

The whole reason why the first D&D rangers had magic is because the community as a whole wouldn't let you heal, cure, talk to animals, create traps, alarm a campsite, call beasts, or even do detectivework by rolling 18 in Nature or Survival. but the community will allow all that be low level magic. So why wouldn't the ranger snag this low level magic?

 

[Horwath]

Aragorn is a fighter,

Being a Dunedine RANGER, I would say that Aragorn is a ranger.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

"It's not what players expect" is a massive assumption here.

No.

It's long and repeated experience. It's absolutely not assumption.

On the direct contrary, the first time it happened I was surprised as hell. I had assumed, subconsciously, that this class was what people expected. It was only when the player really started tuning out of the magic stuff as they levelled up that I realized it wasn't, and from talking to her.

Given that early 5E was essentially the attempt to disown 4E and return to "Iconic" D&D, it seems half-caster Rangers are what WotC has seen the majority expects.

The majority of older players, who they were trying to win back, sure. Because they were aiming solely at D&D veterans. People who played previous editions, especially 3E.

The majority of people who play D&D now? No. I don't believe it. We've gone from 10m at most to at least 30m active players (now, not ever). The vast majority of those people are new to D&D with 5E. The vast majority of them are under 30. This is WotC's figures. Not my assumptions.

I'm admittedly also biased in that the Fey Wanderer, the most magical Ranger of all, is my favorite Ranger subclass by far

Magic absolutely fits that subclass, but it's one of the wackiest and least "Ranger-y" of the subclasses. I'm not saying it's not cool or you shouldn't like it, it is cool, but it's pretty far out there. It's like when my favourite Bard kit in 2E was the Blade, which like, barely a Bard (it is very much NOT my favourite subclass in 5E lol, shocked it even made it).

I feel like stuff like the Fey Wanderer could exist in a "spell-less" Ranger in the same way Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight exist.

 

[Horwath]

At fifth level a ranger has the spellcasting of a 3rd level caster - for both tables. How is that half round down? At 9th level they have the casting of a 5th level caster. I’ve just posted you the tables.

as for artificer, we always used round up.

you gain new levels of spells at levels 5/9/13/17, it fits that you gain one more spell to prepare.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The whole reason why the first D&D rangers had magic is because the community as a whole wouldn't let you heal, cure, talk to animals, create traps, alarm a campsite, call beasts, or even do detectivework by rolling 18 in Nature or Survival. but the community will allow all that be low level magic. So why wouldn't the ranger snag this low level magic?

That's literally nonsensical. You're combining metagame stuff with in-game stuff and it's just wildly nonsensical. You can't do that. You're basically turning the Ranger into Deadpool, breaking the Fourth Wall here lol.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Being a Dunedine RANGER, I would say that Aragorn is a ranger.

Part of the problem is that Fighter is too broad and vague an archetype, and should probably have been ditched in favour of 2-3 classes in 2E.

 

[TheSword]

as for artificer, we always used round up.

you gain new levels of spells at levels 5/9/13/17, it fits that you gain one more spell to prepare.

Yes, the same as the base ranger tables I’ve just posted from the PHB and the UA.

The only difference is that when they multiclass in 5e rangers round down.

 

[Charlaquin]

The Rogue's iconic features are clearly defined and allowed to be pursued fully via their skills. Stealth, lockpicking, and trap disarming have clear rules and don't need magic to be done.

The whole reason why the first D&D rangers had magic is because the community as a whole wouldn't let you heal, cure, talk to animals, create traps, alarm a campsite, call beasts, or even do detectivework by rolling 18 in Nature or Survival. but the community will allow all that be low level magic. So why wouldn't the ranger snag this low level magic?

To heck with the community. Particularly the community of the time. We have a new community of D&D players now, let’s let rangers do those things without magic.