CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
graydoom said:
Looks like someone needs a Smackdown!
Ranger/Thief backstab question
- Thread starter Nightfang
- Start date
Looks like someone needs a Smackdown!
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
Converted to the faith...
I used to think multiple SAs were too powerful. I changed my mind.
At the level the Rogue multiple SAs start to become worrisome is around 10th level. But you must consider countermeasures.
At that level there are a few important effects:
(1) The Rogue is up against a lot of opposition that have ~100+HP and can hit 2-3 times a round for 20-30 HP a hit. His optimized SA is only slightly better than his opponent's if you scale the Rogue's own HPs into the equation.
(2) Are you sure you are not trying to flank a Barbarian?
(3) Are you sure that Blink/Improved-Invisibility will work against that Fighter? Does he have Blind-Fighting?
(4) Magic: 25% Fortification armor is cheap. 75% Fortification is cheap for what you get. Spells or magic items may foil invisibility/blinking.
(5) Golems, undead...
(6) If the battlefield is crowded, ready attacks become common.
Getting in one good SA is not difficult. Getting multiple SAs is certainly possible, but usually very, very risky. With your HPs, you are just one unlucky crit away from being dead.
I used to think multiple SAs were too powerful. I changed my mind.
At the level the Rogue multiple SAs start to become worrisome is around 10th level. But you must consider countermeasures.
At that level there are a few important effects:
(1) The Rogue is up against a lot of opposition that have ~100+HP and can hit 2-3 times a round for 20-30 HP a hit. His optimized SA is only slightly better than his opponent's if you scale the Rogue's own HPs into the equation.
(2) Are you sure you are not trying to flank a Barbarian?
(3) Are you sure that Blink/Improved-Invisibility will work against that Fighter? Does he have Blind-Fighting?
(4) Magic: 25% Fortification armor is cheap. 75% Fortification is cheap for what you get. Spells or magic items may foil invisibility/blinking.
(5) Golems, undead...
(6) If the battlefield is crowded, ready attacks become common.
Getting in one good SA is not difficult. Getting multiple SAs is certainly possible, but usually very, very risky. With your HPs, you are just one unlucky crit away from being dead.
Henry@home
First Post
ruleslawyer said:
Not to be nitpicky, but for NIghtfang, I think I should point out one thing that may help a little in the way of visualization here...
...Sneak attacks are not necessarily performed from the rear, either. A Sneak attack is essentially delivered anytime the thief can catch his opponent with his defenses down - in the rules this is defined as:
- catching the opponent by surprise by hide and move silently
- catching the opponent when they are denied a DEX bonus
- flanking the opponent
- making a successful feint (bluff check) against the opponent in combat.
So in certain circumstances, a rogue can even be standing in front of and looking at their opponent and still make a sneak attack.
About 2 weeks ago, DnDChick posted an excellent example from the Old Testament of a sneak attack against a king by someone - he told the king he had a secret, he wanted only him to hear it, and after the king dismissed his guards the person told the king to bend closer so he could whisper it into his ear, and then promptly planted a knife in the king's belly - excellent example of a bluff check and subsequent sneak attack, if you will. (Or even an assassin's death blow!)
So, think of a sneak attack in a little more broader terms, and you might find many situations that it applies that you hadn't thought of before - even against the PC's!
CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
Henry@home said:
These simplify down to:
* Denied Dex bonus
* Flanked
since surprised opponents lose their Dex bonus, as do opponents you feint.
Two issues to discuss.
1. I agree with Ridley's Cohort in that my oppinion has changed in the course of reading peoples opinions and having the mechanics better explained by those who obviously understand them better than I do. (true sincerity)
2. The whole concept of flame, flaming.... is blown way out of proportion. I some times wonder how some of the milk toast wussies who live and try to rule on these boards make it in life. (Is that a little too hot?)
Point being to some maybe it is a bit offensive to see a spicy post. But, it is just as offensive to have to wade through some of the patheticaly boring, emotionless dribble that some people write when they are not engaged in their true passion of writing operational manuals for electronic devices.
1. I agree with Ridley's Cohort in that my oppinion has changed in the course of reading peoples opinions and having the mechanics better explained by those who obviously understand them better than I do. (true sincerity)
2. The whole concept of flame, flaming.... is blown way out of proportion. I some times wonder how some of the milk toast wussies who live and try to rule on these boards make it in life. (Is that a little too hot?)
Point being to some maybe it is a bit offensive to see a spicy post. But, it is just as offensive to have to wade through some of the patheticaly boring, emotionless dribble that some people write when they are not engaged in their true passion of writing operational manuals for electronic devices.
Rel
Liquid Awesome
Fisk, I could probably hold forth at length about what a jackass you are making of yourself here. At least then you couldn't complain that I was a "milk toast wussie".
But I won't.
Instead, let me simply suggest that intelligent discourse on a subject, backed up by sites and facts, help to further understanding. Even if the parties involved sometimes must part "agreeing to disagree", at least the conversation was conducted in a reasoned manner.
I infer from your suggestion that it would serve the board well that there be more flames and "spicy posts" that you are only passingly familiar with the enlightement that comes with intelligent conversation. Try it. You might like it.
In any event, I predict that if you continue to post in the "spicy" (to use a polite term) manner that you have thus far, you will have a short and unpleasant tenure on this message board.
Enjoy your stay, either way.
But I won't.
Instead, let me simply suggest that intelligent discourse on a subject, backed up by sites and facts, help to further understanding. Even if the parties involved sometimes must part "agreeing to disagree", at least the conversation was conducted in a reasoned manner.
I infer from your suggestion that it would serve the board well that there be more flames and "spicy posts" that you are only passingly familiar with the enlightement that comes with intelligent conversation. Try it. You might like it.
In any event, I predict that if you continue to post in the "spicy" (to use a polite term) manner that you have thus far, you will have a short and unpleasant tenure on this message board.
Enjoy your stay, either way.
QUOTE]Originally posted by Rel
I infer from your suggestion that it would serve the board well that there be more flames and "spicy posts" that you are only passingly familiar with the enlightement that comes with intelligent conversation. Try it. You might like it.
In any event, I predict that if you continue to post in the "spicy" (to use a polite term) manner that you have thus far, you will have a short and unpleasant tenure on this message board.
Enjoy your stay, either way. [/QUOTE]
Now see... "...enlightenment that comes with intelligent conversation. Try it. You might like it." that is good stuff...
Semi witty that is meant to flame me in a subtle way. It does lose a bit of its bite when you have get through the misspelling of "enlightenment". It makes one question if "intelligent" conversation for you is common or still just a theory.
Some people here would dwell on misspellings, but not me. I prefer to look at the substance of your post. Which was good, and I choose to look at the substance because I think that would be the "Intelligent" thing to do.
And thanks I will enjoy my stay... It has been fun and I have already been persuaded by the posters to rethink my views on Sneak attacks.
It’s good to be part of the club.
I infer from your suggestion that it would serve the board well that there be more flames and "spicy posts" that you are only passingly familiar with the enlightement that comes with intelligent conversation. Try it. You might like it.
In any event, I predict that if you continue to post in the "spicy" (to use a polite term) manner that you have thus far, you will have a short and unpleasant tenure on this message board.
Enjoy your stay, either way. [/QUOTE]
Now see... "...enlightenment that comes with intelligent conversation. Try it. You might like it." that is good stuff...
Semi witty that is meant to flame me in a subtle way. It does lose a bit of its bite when you have get through the misspelling of "enlightenment". It makes one question if "intelligent" conversation for you is common or still just a theory.
Some people here would dwell on misspellings, but not me. I prefer to look at the substance of your post. Which was good, and I choose to look at the substance because I think that would be the "Intelligent" thing to do.
And thanks I will enjoy my stay... It has been fun and I have already been persuaded by the posters to rethink my views on Sneak attacks.
It’s good to be part of the club.
CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
This is bordering on troll territory... Stop posting now!
SpikeyFreak
First Post
Can we stop attacking the guy so we can see if he is actually going to contribute to the boards or just be a troll?
--Nameless Spikey
--Nameless Spikey
