Ranger & TWF vs. Archery Powers

[Zurai]

If we restricted Prime Shot to the Archery Ranger path, then that's a solid reason for them to want to choose that instead of the TWF path.

No, it isn't. Prime Shot puts the Archer Ranger in exactly the spot he doesn't want to be in - being the nearest target for an enemy. He's a ranged attacker, he shouldn't be the first line of defense, and he shouldn't have an exclusive ability that encourages him to be the first line of defense. That goes counter to the playstyle of the class. You shouldn't have to play counter-intuitively to get full benefit from a straightforward class.

 

[Ziana]

The value of Prime Shot is that an archer with unobstructed view gets a slight bonus. There's tactical ways to take advantage of it: circling past the meleers to target the backrow casters/healers. It comes in handy if the ranger is scouting ahead or bringing up the rear.

But it's a very small bonus, and no real justification in itself to choose either path.

 

[Kosh]

No, it isn't. Prime Shot puts the Archer Ranger in exactly the spot he doesn't want to be in - being the nearest target for an enemy. He's a ranged attacker, he shouldn't be the first line of defense, and he shouldn't have an exclusive ability that encourages him to be the first line of defense. That goes counter to the playstyle of the class. You shouldn't have to play counter-intuitively to get full benefit from a straightforward class.

I really like Prime Shot. I think it's fun to maneuver into the a position where I can hit my quarry with a prime shot.

Also, I'm not sure about the other rangers out there, but mine has 18 AC. I don't mind being in the thick of the fight. In fact, since I have Defensive Mobility, I can play tricks with the fighter and his mark. Take the OA on the ranger against AC 20 if you want, but that fighter gets a free attack, too. Add the shield knockback feat for even more fun.

I'm glad they added in a reason for rangers to be mobile skirmishers. I would find it boring to sit in the back and fire the same shots over and over again.

 

[Kaldaen]

Incorrect. You, as a ranger, are a better archer than any other class, because you can make two attacks with a bow at-will.

Now, had you said that you're not a better archer than a TWF ranger, while a TWF ranger is a better TWF than you, you'd have a point.

Plenty of other people have made this exact point earlier in the thread. I saw no need to repeat it. As far as making two attacks with the bow, that is more a Ranger thing than an Archery thing. All Rangers have powers like that.

You know what? Just give the archery path the feature where they get to wield one-handed weapons in their off-hand, and be done with it. None of the rangers who want to be TWF will care -- you haven't made them any worse, and you haven't made the archery path rangers any better than the TWF rangers are. Most archery path rangers won't care, either -- they never use TWF, they could care less what they're allowed to wield in the off-hand. But the small subset of people whining that TWF "gets more" will be appeased, and the topic can be put to rest.

Again, this won't make the Archer any better at archery, which is the whole point of this thread. The Two-Weapon style Ranger is better than everyone else at fighting with two weapons. It stands to reason, therefore, that the Archery Ranger should be better than everyone with ranged weapons, yet he can easily be matched by TB Rangers and multi-class characters who don't get the benefit of a choice of fighting style.

 

[SableWyvern]

Hmm...

Would anything break if you dropped short bows to 1d6 damage and longbows to 1d8, but gave archer path rangers a die-type increase with them?

 

[Eagle Prince]

What if archery path made bows high-crit weapons?

 

[Ziana]

What if archery path made bows high-crit weapons?

Love. Love love love.

 

[Kaldaen]

What if archery path made bows high-crit weapons?

I like the idea, except future books could easily include special bow variants that have the high-crit property built in, which would nullify the archery path feature.

I know this calls for speculation, but it's certainly plausible.

 

[bardolph]

Hrm... the problem seems to be that Toughness is simply a better feat than Defensive Mobility, if you do the math.

If a ranger decides to grant opponents Opportunity Attacks, the chance that Defensive Mobility makes the difference between getting hit and not getting hit is only 10%. Since Toughness grants a flat 5hp bonus, the Archery Ranger needs to grant enough Opportunity Attacks in an encounter to equal an average of 50hp worth of attacks, before Defensive Mobility pays for itself.

What if Defensive Mobility granted a +5 AC against Opportunity Attacks instead of +2? I think that would bring it more in line with Toughness, and make the Archery ranger a viable alternative to the TB ranger.

 

[Bleoberis De Ganis]

Hmmm ... giving archer rangers the ability to make their own arrows out-of-combat with little to no cost would actually be quite flavorful. I mean, how often do you expect the woodsy, urban-phobic guy (total stereotype, I know) to go to town to buy arrows??

That would be really cool, for me anyways

Perhaps? - Use Nature skill to create 20 arrows (no check) - use nature check to create Shortbow/Longbow? Free of charge. - Must be in natural surroundings to do so.