Rant: WotC can't design their spells "right"

I agree that there are still several spells which could have been done better. Some of the PHB spells are also pretty high in level for what they really accomplish, and this has the effect of making them quite unpopular choices, even if they would be useful.

OTOH I don't have problems with Conjurations bypassing SR. We tend to say that while an evocation spell may make magical fire appear out of nowhere, a conjuration spell creates (or transport in) mundane fire, against which SR can't help (but some creatures may be immune to mundane fire and not to magical fire). That's just a saying tho...

Finally I agree that spells should almost always have a saving throw or another chance to save (even partially). A ranged attack is enough, a touch attack not so enough.
 

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MerricB said:
Given that most of those items are you making rules up...
Yes, the point being that if there are some solid design principles at work underlying the spells - and you can divine some from the SRD spells (which, of course, seem to have exceptions), then why not simply adhere to them when designing new spells? For Gawd sake, there are design rules for everything in D&D v.3.x to ensure "balance". You'd think some sensible design rules could be created for that class of spells which causes direct energy damage. It just s**ts me to tears when I see page after page of badly designed spells with poorly or ambiguously drafted text. We're in the process of "rebalancing" the spell lists, huh? Why'd friggin' druids get so many new beefcake spells in Complete Divine and its predecessor, Masters of the Wild. Like druids need more spells? And now "Conjurers are the new Evokers; the flavour you like in a brand new container". And there's no friggin' decent evocations in any of the previous splatbooks, monstrous ecology books, not even in the friggin' books supporting the Campaign Setting of Magic Beggaring Common Sense (that's Faerun, in case anyone's wondering).

Yep, I can design my own. Yes, I can tinker with existing spells to rebalance them. I can do this in my own campaign. But when you're playing the wizard doing the research, it's a little harder to convince the DM that you've designed balanced spells when (a) you work to design rules which you've made up from inference and deduction from SRD spells; and (b) there are in fact no comparable spells in the SRD.

I provide some examples:

Sonic shockwave
Source: Personal research
Evocation (Force, Sonic)
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial or Reflex half (object); see text
Spell Resistance: Yes; see text​

A powerful concussive noise arcs away from you, causing 1d3 points of sonic damage and 1 point of force damage per caster level to everything in the area (maximum 15d3 sonic and 15 force damage). Creatures in the area are also dazed for 1 round and deafened for 1d4 rounds. Any exposed brittle or crystalline object or crystalline creature suffers double sonic damage unless it makes its save. A successful save halves the sonic damage and negates the dazing and deafening, but has no effect on the force damage. Spell resistance is only effective against the sonic damage and the deafening; a spell-resistant creature which successfully resists the sonic damage and deafening will still suffer the force damage and can still be dazed if it fails its Fortitude save.

Chain lightning
Saving Throw: Reflex half and Fortitude negates; see text​

A creature struck by a bolt of chain lightning can make a Reflex save for half damage. A creature who suffers any damage must also make a Fortitude save or be stunned for 1 round.

Cone of Cold
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Duration: Instantaneous and up to 1d6 rounds; see text
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial; see text​

Cone of cold creates an area of extreme cold, originating at your hand and extending outward in a cone. It drains heat, dealing 1d6 points of cold damage per caster level (maximum 15d6). In addition, creatures who suffer damage are also frozen stiff, suffering the same effects as a slow spell, for 1d6 rounds (this is a slow effect for the purposes of stacking such effects and countering with haste). A successful Fortitude save halves the cold damage and reduces the duration of the slow effect to 1 round. A stiff creature can also get rid of the slow effect by being subject to any large heat source (including a lightning bolt) or effect which causes at least 1d6 points of fire damage.
Arcane Material Component: A very small crystal or glass cone.


Remathilis said:
So where's the consistancy? [sic]
Exactly!

Cheers, Al'Kelhar
 

I have long since given up on WotC as far as new spells are concerned. If I want something interesting then I'll dig out R&R 1 and R&R 2. Those books alone hold more than enough spells to cause much confusion and fear among my players.

Okay, they are in 3.0 format, but that isn't such a big deal to me...
 

Telperion said:
I have long since given up on WotC as far as new spells are concerned. If I want something interesting then I'll dig out R&R 1 and R&R 2. Those books alone hold more than enough spells to cause much confusion and fear among my players.

Okay, they are in 3.0 format, but that isn't such a big deal to me...

Yeah, I've got R&R1 - the first printing - and when I first started playing D&D v.3.0 in 2000 (after playing years of AD&D 2E) I wasn't too fussed about inconsistencies, inaccuracies or lack of common sense in these spells. I was used to it. But the trouble is now I have a pretty darn good handle on the mechanics underlying most of D&D v.3.x, and the R&R1 spells offend my sense of order. Every time I pick up the book now it's "well, that darn'd spell needs a good fixin'!"

Cheers, Al'Kelhar
 

My particular gripe is Necromancy spells. According to the school description, necromancy includes spells that 'create, manipulate or destroy life force'. But all we seem to get is 'cacklingly evil stuff'. Healing is a conjuration while inflicting is necromancy. Remove disease is conjuration while contagion is necromancy. Fear spells are necromancy while every other mind-affecting spell is enchantment. Remove curse is an abjuration while bestow curse is necromancy. And all the marginal spells that could be read as 'manipulating life force' - heroism, haste, bull's strength and the other stat boosting spells, Tenser's transformation, etc - seem to be dumped in Transmutation (like it wasn't powerful enough already) or Enchantment...

R&R1 is banned in our games. Its spells were responsible for over half the PC fatalities in our first (level 1 to 20) 3rd ed campaign, and there were only a couple of NPCs who used them. Broken, broken, broken...
 


The ones that bug me are the orb spells from complete arcane, 4th level one target 15d6 damage touch attack. Sounds like it is between 3rd level fireball area 10d6 and 5th level CoC 15d6 area, except that the orb ones have no spell resistance.

Conjuration now trumps evocation.

I liked them better in 3.0 when they were evocations and SR applied.
 

Voadam said:
(snip) I liked them better in 3.0 when they were evocations and SR applied.

Since SR seems to be a factor in this discussion, I'll chime in with an observation of mine.

It appears to me that along with lowering the impact that DR has on the game, WotC lowered (is lowering) the impact of SR as well. It's possible that what we are seeing here is not a breakdown in spell design, but a shift in the importance of Spell Resistance.

This is, of course, just an observation of mine, and since my wife is always telling me how un-observant I am, it's entirely possible I'm wrong...
 


Al'Kelhar said:
Yes, the point being that if there are some solid design principles at work underlying the spells - and you can divine some from the SRD spells (which, of course, seem to have exceptions), then why not simply adhere to them when designing new spells?

I went through many, many man-hours of work doing exactly that.

The fruits of that labor are available in Heroes of High Favor: Elves, as the man said.

Wulf
 

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