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Rare Magical Item Preview - Holy Avenger

Walking Dad

First Post
It confirms my fear that all of the 'can be used as implement' items are now rare...

Now the longspear proficiency of the shaman is now useless again until he founds a rare, character-defining item...
 

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abyssaldeath

First Post
It confirms my fear that all of the 'can be used as implement' items are now rare...

Now the longspear proficiency of the shaman is now useless again until he founds a rare, character-defining item...

It confirms nothing of the sort. Regardless of what the Holy Avenger does it's the freaking Holy Avenger. Of course it's going to be rare. It's an item that has historically been one of a kind, IE rare. To say that since the Holy Avenger can be used as a Holy Symbol means that all magic weapons that can be used as an implement will be rare is more than a little premature.
 

Scribble

First Post
It confirms my fear that all of the 'can be used as implement' items are now rare...

Now the longspear proficiency of the shaman is now useless again until he founds a rare, character-defining item...

A disrupting weapon can be used as a holy symbol- per the CB it is uncommon, so your fear is now allayed.
 

Riastlin

First Post
Magic items have always been the purview of the DM. Frankly, I'm more surprised by the number of people that think players should be able to choose whatever items they want. Even with some magic items in the PHB, I never thought that to be the case.

This was my problem with the "wish list". The way it was put into the books sort of implied that it was now a rule (at least to some people). For me though, I've always thought that part of the fun of D&D was finding ways to use that item whose value wasn't immediately obvious. Or sure, my character might really like to have Deathcut Armor (or whatever its called), but you know what? Dwarven chain is still pretty damn useful, etc.

I realize of course that feats are partially to blame for this (after all, if you take Expertise (heavy blade) that fancy hammer feels less special. These kind of things though are pretty easily handled in a game though. Frankly, I have a hard time believing that a group of level 4 adventurers would go "Huh, a +2 Hammer of Whooparse. That sucks, we are all Heavy Blade Experts. Oh well, I guess we can sell it to the next vendor we have for coppers on the gold piece." Seems to me that it would be much more likely to have something like "Sweet! A Hammer of Whooparse! Rock-Paper-Scissors to see who gets it?"
 

I figured you'd end up with something like:

Holy Avenger of Saint Orolo
Level 5 Rare

The ascetic warrior-philosopher Orolo received messages from heavenly beings in the form of analemmae - figure-eight patterns traced in the sky by the course of the sun. This blade protected him in his pilgrimage across the world as he sought to understand the meaning of these celestial signs. In his journeys, however, he rarely drew his weapon except against supernatural foes, preferring to defeat traditional tyrants by fearlessly entering their courts and revealing the folly of war in philosophical debate. His wisdom inspired many to follow him.

After many years, his pilgrimage ended at a sacred island mountain, site of a long-abandoned monastery whose courtyard was tiled with an analemma. When a world-threatening danger fell from the stars and crashed into the mountain's volcanic heart, Orolo refused to flee even as torrents of lava engulfed the island. He battled the adversary and its minions, holding them back so his followers could escape.

Orolo died when molten rock swept over him, preserving his body and blade for the ages. But word of his sacrifice spread across the world, to every land he helped free from oppression, inspiring a unified resistance that ultimately defeated the otherworldly invader.

Lvl 5 +1 1,000 gp*
Weapon: Heavy blade**
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +1d6 radiant damage per point of enhancement bonus
Property: You gain resist 5 radiant and cannot be blinded by attacks with the radiant keyword.
Power (At-Will): Prerequisite: Trained in Diplomacy. Minor Action. Choose a minion creature of natural origin you can see that understands your language. You speak only a few words, but that creature hears in an instant the logic of why it serves an unworthy master. That minion abandons combat, either withdrawing or surrendering.
Power (Encounter): No Action. Trigger: You are reduced to 0 hit points or below. Effect: Until the end of the encounter, your allies gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls against any creature that was marked by you when you used this power.
Power (Daily): Standard Action. You place every enemy you can see within 20 squares under your divine sanction. The sanction lasts until the end of your next turn. While sanctioned, the first time that a creature uses an action to make an attack that does not target you, it takes radiant damage equal to 3 + your Wisdom or Charisma modifier. The damage increases to 6 + your Wisdom or Charisma modifier at 11th level, and to 9 + your Wisdom or Charisma modifier at 21st level.
Special: A holy avenger can be used as a holy symbol. It adds its enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls and the extra damage granted by its property (if applicable) when used in this manner. You do not gain your weapon proficiency bonus to an attack roll when using a holy avenger as an implement.

*As a rare item, this weapon's enhancement bonus increases by +1 for every 5 levels the wielder is above the item's level.

**Feel free to change the item to an axe or hammer, to match the preferred weapon of your group's paladin.
 

vaultdweller

First Post
Here's my problem with this:

The Holy Avenger has been around in 4e since the first PHB. The interesting thing about the Holy Avenger? Nobody wants it. Even when it's readily available, it's not a desirable weapon for its level.

So, their idea of a Rare item, which is supposed to be cool, character-defining, and something that players will be thrilled to acquire... is something that no one wants?

It seems to me like they decided that Holy Avengers are Rare based entirely on the name Holy Avenger. That name has some strong prestige attached to it due to previous editions, but in 4e, it's just a lacklustre weapon that happens to share its name with a powerful weapon of previous editions. This rarity classification seems like just an attempt to appeal to the nostalgia of "grognards" by making something from previous editions seem special again, but without actually do anything to make it special.
 


Rydac

Explorer
EDIT: Link Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Magic Items)


.....My problem with it is that it's boring. Almost nothing about the mechanics say "cool, character defining, plot advancing" item. .....


....On top of all that this is an epic item, so really should be the most impressive of the bunch right? And it's what they previewed, obviously what they want to show off. Is this the best they can do?

What are your thoughts?

I agree completely. Very boring. A rare and epic level weapon needs to do something more than just add in extra numbers to defense and damage. Nothing about that holy avenger says "cool, character defining or plot advancing"...it is just a tough weapon. Rare items really need to sparkle and do things....well magical!
 

Mengu

First Post
Clearly, "rare" is not something to be excited about. The more interesting snippet from the article for me was that the wishlist system is still in place. In other words, nothing changed except making and buying magic items is now done for an item subset, while a majority of items need to be found, and there is a small subset of items you can't put on your wishlist.

DM's are still supposed to give players items they can use. They have the option to say no to a wish of course, but they always had that option.

I don't see modifying anything for my game with these "changes".
 

Scribble

First Post
Clearly, "rare" is not something to be excited about.

Personally I think it's kind of a genius psychological trick for putting a little "sense of wonder" back into some magic items without messing with the balance of the system.


It's like getting a "gold star" from a teacher or something. It's just a piece of paper with a sticky back... It doesn't stick better then any other sticker you can buy at the store... But because you earned it by doing something to impress someone it feels more special then just going to the store and buying it yourself.

They aren't trying to make rare items special by making them more powerful... Then they just become something you need to have for balance sake, or optimization.

They're just making them harder to acquire... So now it just becomes special when you do get one.
 

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