Rare Magical Item Preview - Holy Avenger

[Victim]

So the only change is that someone who wants a holy symbol/weapon and likes radiant powers can't buy/make a preferred item easily, whereas someone most improved by other items (say basic attack enhancers...) can make or buy improvements easily.

This is exactly why I didn't like the idea of the item rarity system.

The more ordinary Radiant weapon generally seemed to be favored for boosting radiant damage anyway.

 

[Jhaelen]

My thoughts: moderately disappointed.
[...]
What are your thoughts?

Yep. Colour me disappointed. I was looking forward to the 4e equivalent of 'Items of Legacy'. This is nothing, really. It's just one of the categories to put magic items into.

I think I'm not going to update the Character Builder anymore. I prefer the old system.

 

[shmoo2]

I agree completely. Very boring. A rare and epic level weapon needs to do something more than just add in extra numbers to defense and damage. Nothing about that holy avenger says "cool, character defining or plot advancing"...it is just a tough weapon. Rare items really need to sparkle and do things....well magical!

This reminds me of when, before 4e was released WoTC previewed an epic level monster... and chose the swordwing.

Everyone derided how boring they are and how they just seemed like orcs, with +20 AC.

Of course, the swordwing is actually one of the most boring epic monsters in the MM.

Hopefully WoTC has chosen similarly poorly with the preview snippet this time, and other rare items, especially epic ones will be better than the Holy Avenger shown today.

But I'm not counting on it. I don't think the design work here went any further than simply handing out designations for existing items. No new guidelines were created for rare items to make them special; no existing items will be revised to give them "rare-level specialness".

 

[Marshall]

Personally I think it's kind of a genius psychological trick for putting a little "sense of wonder" back into some magic items without messing with the balance of the system.


It's like getting a "gold star" from a teacher or something. It's just a piece of paper with a sticky back... It doesn't stick better then any other sticker you can buy at the store... But because you earned it by doing something to impress someone it feels more special then just going to the store and buying it yourself.

No.
Its like a getting your quiz back and finding you got a D, but Hey! The teacher put a gold star on it so the world is a happy place!

The rarity system is unnecessary, bloated, badly implemented and stands absolutely zero chance of accomplishing the design intent.
WotC couldnt assign levels correctly, what makes you think adding a second axis will help that?

 

[fuzzlewump]

Reading the WotC forums, it seems most people are expecting Rare items to be artifact-quality. This Holy Avenger looks good to me. It's able to be used as a holy symbol, thus negating the need for two magic items. The boost to radiant damage for clerics and paladins is nice as well.

Well, I think they should be closer to artifacts. Rare items are a once per tier sort of thing, just like artifacts. Artifacts are completely in DM control, just like rare items.

Anyway, the issue for me isn't the power level exactly, it's just the interesting-ness of it. Something like a property that it always sheds light, when you hold it up it to the sun it points to the nearest undead or demon (within X), a ritual using it as the focus can protect your dead friends from being undead-ified. A general encounter power, and maybe an encounter or daily power for smiting evil. At-will to make all damage radiant, blinds for a turn on a crit. The healing crit is less "Avenger" more "Vampire."

Alternatively, look at Ranger Wickett's item. Great creation.

See.. I don't even like 4th edition so much but..

What's wrong with this item? It's very well on the lines of "bash evildoers protect innocent" of the Paladin
...
The daily CAN change a plot in some way, too, if used timely.

I list what I find wrong with it in the OP. It doesn't bash evil-doers, it bashes everything. That's one point of flavor that's missing. The daily doesn't change the plot, it just changes the combat. I was hoping rare items would be able to, at least slightly, affect both.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It confirms nothing of the sort. Regardless of what the Holy Avenger does it's the freaking Holy Avenger. Of course it's going to be rare. It's an item that has historically been one of a kind, IE rare.

Well, I don't know about you, but I think I've rarely seen a mid-high level paladin WITHOUT a holy avenger! historically they turned up all over the place!

If it was to be a one of a kind item, make it an artifact (for which it could be ideally suited).

Otherwise, I'd like to have seen some things which were more traditional for paladins and holy avengers in there - something like

at-will: Aura 1 fearlessness. +3 on saving throws against fear effects (or +3 to defence against fear attacks, or something similar)

Encounter: Dispel Magic

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I think the Holy Avenger was not the most desired item, since it was a Paladin only weapon in the past. Now it may be a little more open to other classes, as Clerics, Runepriests and Avengers may pontentially have a use for it, so it may be more appealing...


Though a lot of magic items have always been "meh" to me. I generally find boons to be more interesting, as I think they probably colour and define a character far more than many magic items do.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

you know, I don't think any epic paliden would be happy with getting this item...

Frankly, I have a hard time believing that a group of level 4 adventurers would go "Huh, a +2 Hammer of Whooparse. That sucks, we are all Heavy Blade Experts. Oh well, I guess we can sell it to the next vendor we have for coppers on the gold piece." Seems to me that it would be much more likely to have something like "Sweet! A Hammer of Whooparse! Rock-Paper-Scissors to see who gets it?"

I have seen plenty of these things in example...

My warlock selling a staff of XXX, becuse I can't use it. Then in the same game no one wanted the weapon of healing, becuse we had a warlord that couldn't use it...

 

[fuzzlewump]

you know, I don't think any epic paliden would be happy with getting this item...



I have seen plenty of these things in example...

My warlock selling a staff of XXX, becuse I can't use it. Then in the same game no one wanted the weapon of healing, becuse we had a warlord that couldn't use it...

He said level 4 adventurers, not the players of level 4 adventurers.

I imagine for the characters in the setting, finding any magic would be at least a little bit of a thrill, even if only to sell it.

 

[thewok]

I have seen plenty of these things in example...

My warlock selling a staff of XXX, becuse I can't use it. Then in the same game no one wanted the weapon of healing, becuse we had a warlord that couldn't use it...

These are problems with the DM. The DM should be placing items that the players would be happy with. If there were no wizard/invoker/artificer/whatever in the group, then a staff is useless. Better to be a pact blade, or maybe a rod of some sort for you.

Same thing with the warlord. Why didn't the DM place a weapon that could be used by the warlord?

The DM's job is to help facilitate the enjoyment of the players. Part of that is making sure they get useful and meaningful magic items. Just pulling random things out of the books shows both a lack of forethought and a lack of caring on the part of the DM.