Ray of Enfeeblement stack?

[Elephant]

Oops. I was thinking in terms of damage rather than a penalty :/

 

[ForceUser]

So the question then is, is ray of enfeeblement still too good for a 1st-level spell, even if it doesn't stack and can't crit?

 

[Solarious]

Because Ray of Enfeeblement requires an attack roll, and therefore can miss, can possibly hit your allies, needs to penetrate SR, and is less useful against opponents that do not emphasize physical beatdown as opposed to magical arsenals designed to roast you alive and psychic powers to render most into drooling idiots.

 

[Hypersmurf]

... can possibly hit your allies...

Only if they're grappling, though.

Or if you're using a variant rule.

-Hyp.

 

[Hammerhead]

Only if they're grappling, though.

Or if you're using a variant rule.

-Hyp.

Maybe you've heard of a little thing called cover? Your foolish friends can grant your enemies it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Maybe you've heard of a little thing called cover? Your foolish friends can grant your enemies it.

That's true. But in 3.5, 'Striking the cover instead of a missed target' is a variant rule.

Hence "or if you're using a variant rule".

The default rule in 3.5 is that if you miss due to cover, you didn't hit. Not that you hit the cover.

-Hyp.

 

[maransreth]

On the weekend my 10th mage used a rod of lesser empower metamagic with ray of enfeeblement to bring 2 fire giants to a Str of 16. I rolled a 10, x1.5 to get a 15.

This made it quite interesting for the DM to decide how heavy the half-plate armor and greatsword weighed, and whether the giants could stand under the weight when brought down to Str 16. In the end he decided that they collapsed under the weight of all the metal.

So I would say that Ray of Enfeeblement is definitely a good 1st level spell to bring down fighters.

 

[kjenks]

The Str penalty from RoE stacks with Str penalties from other spells. My current favorite: Langour.

 

[ForceUser]

On the weekend my 10th mage used a rod of lesser empower metamagic with ray of enfeeblement to bring 2 fire giants to a Str of 16. I rolled a 10, x1.5 to get a 15.

This made it quite interesting for the DM to decide how heavy the half-plate armor and greatsword weighed, and whether the giants could stand under the weight when brought down to Str 16. In the end he decided that they collapsed under the weight of all the metal.

So I would say that Ray of Enfeeblement is definitely a good 1st level spell to bring down fighters.

Actually, this kind of makes my point. Should a 1st-level spell--even an empowered one--be capable of taking out a CR 10 monster? I don't think so.

 

[Thanee]

...without a save...

That's the big point there. But even with a high Str penalty, a CR 10 monster should still be dangerous. It's just something like a -5 penalty to attack and damage. That surely lessens the power of a creature, but doesn't take it out.

Bye
Thanee