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D&D 5E Ray Winninger, in charge of D&D, states his old school bonefides.

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darjr

I crit!
Ray Winninger felt like flexing his old school bonafides.

Edit to add:

I'm fairly certain he was responding to 5e old school style players. I'm not sure that makes any difference for some but maybe.
Noticed a group of fans demanding WotC demonstrate it cares] about "old school"
@Wizards_DnD
players. Well, WotC put me in charge of D&D and I'm an "old school" player myself. (I started playing in 1977 and designed 1E products for TSR!) Does that suffice? #WOTCstaff
 
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Mordhau

Adventurer
I don't see how this is supposed to help anything.

What it's going to achieve? People who aren't happy with the direction of D&D aren't going to be happy with this or have their minds changes by something so spurious.

Better to just keep putting out product and let the market decide.

Edit: Not that I'm saying it's wrong to engage with criticism but engage properly or don't engage at all- the only thing twitter is good for is further dividing people.
 


darjr

I crit!
This quite clearly misses the point of any appeal to 'demonstrate care for old school players.'

I mean you get this, I'm sure.

I dont label myself within this group, but I know who they are, and I know this isnt what 'they' are looking for.
I must not understand. There was a group of 5e old school players that run an older style of game. This is what I think he's replying to. As for me I think this helps. It gives me some comfort going into the new core books.
 

Scribe

Hero
I must not understand. There was a group of 5e old school players that run an older style of game. This is what I think he's replying to. As for me I think this helps. It gives me some comfort going into the new core books.

I don't see how this is supposed to help anything.

What it's going to achieve? People who aren't happy with the direction of D&D aren't going to be happy with this or have their minds changes by something so spurious.

Better to just keep putting out product and let the market decide.

Edit: Not that I'm saying it's wrong to engage with criticism but engage properly or don't engage at all- the only thing twitter is good for is further dividing people.

That's neat and all...but, 1) doesn't he have better things to do...like literally anything involving life, and; 2) why give the whiny gatekeepers the attention?

Perhaps I misunderstand, but I dont see this as anything but trying to pacify a segment of the gaming population that...isnt going to be pacified, as Mordhau and overgeeked point out here.

If he's talking about some other specific group that just wanted a shout out...sure?
 

BookTenTiger

He / Him
Perhaps I misunderstand, but I dont see this as anything but trying to pacify a segment of the gaming population that...isnt going to be pacified, as Mordhau and overgeeked point out here.

If he's talking about some other specific group that just wanted a shout out...sure?
It seems to me like he is responding to the criticism that WotC doesn't care about "old school gamers" by showing he considers himself an old school gamer.

Whether folks are pacified or not are up to them. But it's a pretty valid response to that specific criticism!
 

J.Quondam

CR 1/8
I don't see how this is supposed to help anything.

What it's going to achieve? People who aren't happy with the direction of D&D aren't going to be happy with this or have their minds changes by something so spurious.

Better to just keep putting out product and let the market decide.

Edit: Not that I'm saying it's wrong to engage with criticism but engage properly or don't engage at all- the only thing twitter is good for is further dividing people.
The message is likely not aimed at those whose minds are made up. Can't change those folks.

But if the hooplah is big enough to cause questions among those whose minds are not made up, it might help. I have no idea how big this "controversy" actually is, but if it is big enough, WotC probably ought to say something about it in some fashion.

That sort of thing probably falls under the "marketing" part of "let the markets decide."
 

Scribe

Hero
It seems to me like he is responding to the criticism that WotC doesn't care about "old school gamers" by showing he considers himself an old school gamer.

Whether folks are pacified or not are up to them. But it's a pretty valid response to that specific criticism!
I'm sorry, but how is it a valid response?

"Wizards cares, because I played 1e!" Really?

I dont know what demonstration of 'care' people are asking for, but I highly doubt 'I played, so clearly Wizards cares.' is going to suffice.
 



BookTenTiger

He / Him
I'm sorry, but how is it a valid response?

"Wizards cares, because I played 1e!" Really?

I dont know what demonstration of 'care' people are asking for, but I highly doubt 'I played, so clearly Wizards cares.' is going to suffice.
If you told me the company I work for doesn't care about volleyball, and then I replied, "The company put me in charge of volleyball, and I have played volleyball since the 70's..."

I feel like the message is pretty clear?
 

Ol mot sure what he's trying to pacify or what he's trying to point at because "old school" is stripped of context. "WotC demonstrate it cares] about "old school"... What aspects of it? What design differences?" .

So he started playing in '77... and?.. what does that mean going forward? How can we expect this to show up mechanically? When can we expect to start hearing design goals and such?

The tweet is pretty much the embodiment of "talk is cheap..." and I suspect that the root cause can be traced back to seven years of wotc refusing to show interest in considering thinking about adding things like tactical grid mechanics worth a dam, finished crafting mechanics, balance pass on zomgbroke munchkin build linchpin abilities, doing anything about the game genie adjacent rest mechanics, etc.

Wotc should spend less time with empty rhetoric like the tweet and more on things like optional UA pdfs that might appeal to that crowd even if it's an even more preprint class of ua created for that kinda stuff.
 
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darjr

I crit!
I'm sorry, but how is it a valid response?

"Wizards cares, because I played 1e!" Really?

I dont know what demonstration of 'care' people are asking for, but I highly doubt 'I played, so clearly Wizards cares.' is going to suffice.
I don't know why but it seems you are taking a very uncharitable view of the post. It's not that he played. He wrote and was a big fan. He is an old school type of person. He is an "old school" type of player and WotC put him in charge, in part BECAUSE of that.

But he was more than a player. I mean I think his first TSR publication is an adventure right along side of Steve Perrin and Jennell Jaquays!
 

Scribe

Hero
I think it’s more “we, the Wizards, are old school gamers, so of course we care about old school gamers.”
Yes, but I am extremely doubtful that anyone asking 'show me you care' is placated in such a manner. :)

If you told me the company I work for doesn't care about volleyball, and then I replied, "The company put me in charge of volleyball, and I have played volleyball since the 70's..."

I feel like the message is pretty clear?

That completely misses the point when editions of the game can wildly vary in rules and tone. If you think the message is clear, and that 'I played in the 70's' is sufficiently clear, great.

The tweet is pretty much the embodiment of "talk is cheap..."
Exactly.

I don't know why but it seems you are taking a very uncharitable view of the post. It's not that he played. He wrote and was a big fan. He is an old school type of person. He is an "old school" type of player and WotC put him in charge, in part BECAUSE of that.

But he was more than a player. I mean I think his first TSR publication is an adventure right along side of Steve Perrin and Jennell Jaquays!

Again...so what?

If he's in charge, and he's 'old school' then why does the game not seem to satisfy people who are 'old school' and want something different from what 5e provides? Why is the direction pulling away from what 'old school' would seem to imply?

"I played back then!" is meaningless if the product continues to move in a direction away from whatever 'back then' implies.
 

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