Re-reading the Hobbit, it almost feels like a distinct setting from LotR's Middle-Earth

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Well, I say "reading," but I'm listening to Andy Serkis' audiobook, which I strongly recommend.

I've re-read the Hobbit a number of times over the years -- my dad reading the first page of the book is my very first memory -- and every time, something new jumps out at me.

This time, it's that JRRT talks about dragons and princesses in need of being rescued, and talks about "light, dark and sea elves" all going off to Faerie (in the West, of course). While all of that could map onto LotR's version of Middle-Earth, it's hard to imagine everyone in Gondor telling stories of princesses being kidnapped by dragons.

This is the later LotR-ized version of the Hobbit, as far as I know/can imagine, but it has a much more traditional, even fairy tale vibe than LotR. Obviously, officially, it's the same setting, but it feels like an inflection point where JRRT could have gone in a direction that was less mythic, more pastoral. There's more of that in the (not Middle-Earth) story of Farmer Giles of Ham, so it's not like JRRT didn't enjoy this mode as well. I had just forgotten just how different the world is in the Hobbit alone, compared to all of the structures that were constructed and published later.

 

[Mannahnin]

Yes, it's a pretty interesting contrast. Particularly with the modernisms the narrator drops in.

Incidentally, Nicol Williamson (most known to many gamers as Merlin in Excalibur) did a lovely recording of the Hobbit back in '74 which is available in its entirety on Youtube. I'll take any excuse to share it further.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

If you look at The Hobbit and his even earlier piece, The Cottage of Lost Play, I think you see a closer melding of the two worlds. It's got that same pastoral, fairytale vibe. You can still see bits that would become The Silmarillion, however.

Well, I say "reading," but I'm listening to Andy Serkis' audiobook, which I strongly recommend.

I've re-read the Hobbit a number of times over the years -- my dad reading the first page of the book is my very first memory -- and every time, something new jumps out at me.

This time, it's that JRRT talks about dragons and princesses in need of being rescued, and talks about "light, dark and sea elves" all going off to Faerie (in the West, of course). While all of that could map onto LotR's version of Middle-Earth, it's hard to imagine everyone in Gondor telling stories of princesses being kidnapped by dragons.

This is the later LotR-ized version of the Hobbit, as far as I know/can imagine, but it has a much more traditional, even fairy tale vibe than LotR. Obviously, officially, it's the same setting, but it feels like an inflection point where JRRT could have gone in a direction that was less mythic, more pastoral. There's more of that in the (not Middle-Earth) story of Farmer Giles of Ham, so it's not like JRRT didn't enjoy this mode as well. I had just forgotten just how different the world is in the Hobbit alone, compared to all of the structures that were constructed and published later.

Oh wow, hearing Merlin read The Hobbit, amazing!

Yes, it's a pretty interesting contrast. Particularly with the modernisms the narrator drops in.

Incidentally, Nicol Williamson (most known to many gamers as Merlin in Excalibur) did a lovely recording of the Hobbit back in '74 which is available in its entirety on Youtube. I'll take any excuse to share it further.

 

[Cadence]

it's hard to imagine everyone in Gondor telling stories of princesses being kidnapped by dragons.

I don't know if it would be told a lot, but it makes me sad to think they wouldn't know of Finduilas and Glaurung. Although that's not so much a rescue I guess :-/

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I don't know if it would be told a lot, but it makes me sad to think they wouldn't know of Finduilas and Glaurung. Although that's not so much a rescue I guess :-/

Yeah, like I said, it can be made to map, but it feels like an alternate version of the setting, rather than the LotR Middle-Earth, like ME-1 and ME-2.

Obviously, the majority of fans, I think, and JRRT himself seem to prefer the LotR version. I like both, myself, but I wish there was a blockbuster pastoral fantasy story out there. (Maybe that's the Princess Bride.)

 

[Cadence]

No arguments at all with anything you say.

I wonder if an in-world explanation of the difference in tone between the Hobbit, LotR, and Silmarillion fits where the authors were when they wrote it down. Bilbo is happlily back and wealthy, and then at Rivendell - and he explicitly wants it to end with him living "happily ever after to the end of his day". Frodo was not exactly a happy camper when he put LotR into most of its final form, and I don't know if Sam would find himself worthy to cheer any of it up. And the Silmarillion is a telling put together by someone knowing the cost of Feanor's oath and the multiple kinslayings, and still not oversea in the west - and getting tired of it.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

So Bilbo and the hobbits were the ones telling stories of dragons and princesses? That would fit, in-world.

 

[Cadence]

So Bilbo and the hobbits were the ones telling stories of dragons and princesses? That would fit, in-world.

"Don't you blame that on all Hobbits! That's those Tooks... bad influences! If we could stop the children from going to listen to their stories it would all be a lot more peaceful."

 

[pukunui]

I wish there was a blockbuster pastoral fantasy story out there. (Maybe that's the Princess Bride.)

The movie maybe. Definitely not the book, with its dreadful authorial asides and cynical overtones.

 

[GreyLord]

Obviously, the majority of fans, I think, and JRRT himself seem to prefer the LotR version. I like both, myself, but I wish there was a blockbuster pastoral fantasy story out there. (Maybe that's the Princess Bride.)

The movie maybe. Definitely not the book, with its dreadful authorial asides and cynical overtones.

Not quite certain what a pastoral fantasy story would be (a fantasy in the countryside?)

But...would Redwall qualify?

As for movies would The Neverending Story or Dragonslayer qualify?