Readying Outside of Combat

[Infiniti2000]

Ok then, allow me to add a little more detail on what happened.

The extra detail does not explain away Dr. Awkward's comments. But, maybe it's because you don't explain the scenario sufficiently.

The bandits spring the traps, getting injured or whatever. Then what happens? Where are the ninja and scout?

 

[Li Shenron]

I don't think there is much use in allowing ready actions out of the initiative cycle. All those examples can and should be handled within the Initiative round.

- There are very good rules for surprise rounds. Targets which are unaware will not act in the surprise round, so the aware ones will have a standard action before their targets can react.

- Determining that someone doesn't act in the surprise round usually involve a Listen/Spot/Sense Motive check, which the DM is completely free to give any circumstance modifier, in case she thinks that the target should really be disadvantaged.

- The ready action is designed as a trade-off: you lose your chance of acting at an early Initiative, in the hope of getting later the advantage of interrupting your target's action. Outside the Initiative cycle you reap the benefit without the cost.

The problem with those scenarios is that the DM is assuming that it is fair that the target has NO chance whatsoever to avoid being ambushed, but is that really fair at all? Why should be enough for anyway to say "I stand ready to shoot" to REALLY be sure you he's going to shoot first? A benefit is ok, but an automatic success is not.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Ok then, allow me to add a little more detail on what happened.

Why do the bandits charge if they don't know anyone's there?

 

[DungeonMaester]

1) The party is walking down a road and heard loud noises from up the hill, where bandits which where out of sight where being loud.

2) The Ninja goes up and scouts it out not being seen then goes back down to the party explaining to them that there are bandits up there.

3) The scout and the ninja go up ahead finidng where the bandit's scout post is and while sneaking around set up traps on the hill then sneak back to the party.

4) Knowing that the hill would provide too much cover for them so they ready actions while walking past the bandits post provoking the charge.

5) The bandits charge, springing some of the traps

6) The Pcs use their ready actions as a interrupt as they got close enough shooting them with arrows, spells, ect ect.

---Rusty

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

1) The party is walking down a road and heard loud noises from up the hill, where bandits which where out of sight where being loud.

2) The Ninja goes up and scouts it out not being seen then goes back down to the party explaining to them that there are bandits up there.

3) The scout and the ninja go up ahead finidng where the bandit's scout post is and while sneaking around set up traps on the hill then sneak back to the party.

4) Knowing that the hill would provide too much cover for them so they ready actions while walking past the bandits post provoking the charge.

Initiative is rolled at this point, and both parties are aware of each other, so there is no surprise round. The PCs either beat the bandits' initiative and ready actions, or they don't. I'm also not exactly sure why the bandits are on a hair-trigger for charging passers-by, but that's another story, and one tied into the story of why they didn't notice that the passers-by were holding drawn bows, raising hands and holy symbols ready for spellcasting, and moving at half-speed, since they are readying actions each combat round.

5) The bandits charge, springing some of the traps

And at this point, the PCs that didn't beat the bandits' initiative get to go.

6) The Pcs use their ready actions as a interrupt as they got close enough shooting them with arrows, spells, ect ect.

---Rusty

I assume that they walked past within 60 feet of the bandits, or else no interruption of the bandits' actions would be necessary. If you suspect that the bandits will charge you on sight, it's usually a good idea to walk past at 70 feet, because 60 feet is the farthest that a humanoid bandit can charge in one round.

Also, if the bandits are ready and waiting to charge, I don't see why the PCs should automatically get the drop on them, since they don't know exactly when the charge is coming (or that it is coming).

 

[Stalker0]

There is a way to ready actions before the other side gets to act as you will. As someone else stated, its about defining when combat starts.

In dnd terms, surprise round is about "awareness." Let's take the crossbow and the closed door scenario that everyone loves.

The party heads to a closed door. There is a guy with a crossbow on other side of the door, who intends to shoot the first guy who comes through the door.

Now there are 4 ways this scenario can be played out.

1) Complete surprise. The pcs approach, everyone gets listen checks. Neither the party nor the crossbowmen detect the others approach. The PCs open the door, and everyone is surprised. You roll initiative, and play out the scene.

2) Crossbowman detects the party. With a good listen check, he knows someone is coming to the door, but the party knows nothing. At this point, the dm can rule combat has started. The crossbowman can do whatever he wants at this point, but keep in mind many of his actions might give the party additional listen checks. So he decides to stay quiet, and simply READY an action to shoot the first person to the come through the door. The fighter comes through, and gets a crossbow bolt in the chest. Now the party rolls initiative, the crossbowman goes right before the fighter as by readied rules.

3) Party detects crossbowman. He can't ready any actions, he's completely unaware. The party decides to stay sneaky and rush the room as combat has started for them. The fighter will open the door, and everyone else readies an action to move into the room as the door is open. Once their actions are done, the crossbowman rolls initiative, the other party members go right before the fighter, as by the readied rules.

4) Everyone is aware. Combat starts before the door is even opened, everyone get their actions, readied or otherwise, and you play out the scene.

 

[Sithobi1]

#2 is just a surprise round, combat hasn't started yet.
#3 is unnecessary. You COULD Ready an action in the surprise round...or you could just Delay until the Fighter's done. In any case, you all end up at the same initiative.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

#2 is just a surprise round, combat hasn't started yet.
#3 is unnecessary. You COULD Ready an action in the surprise round...or you could just Delay until the Fighter's done. In any case, you all end up at the same initiative.

That's pretty much right. The problem I posted above is not covered by these examples either. In the situation I posted, the unaware side is acting like they're aware in order to maybe strike first against the aware side. The aware side legitimately gets at least one, maybe two crossbow attacks on a character who is in the middle of charging around a corner and into the room, sword ready to smack whomever he reaches first.

That the character needs to move less than 30 feet to do so seems to run up against the realities of firing, loading, and firing a crossbow in a short duration of time. However, by the rules, you can't get the drop on someone you're not aware of, no matter how sure you are that they're there, and in fact they can get the drop on you instead. This tends to break suspension of disbelief, which leads to player-DM conflicts.

The solution to this problem is, I suggest, allowing the aware side to have an action readied, and dispensing with the surprise round in exchange. The PCs can never act before an aware opponent that they are unaware of, but gain something for acting carefully and decisively: they can't be surprised if they act as though an attack is certain.