D&D 4E Really?? Is RPGA really the best place to test 4e

[Hussar]

On the whole "writers should be playtesters" bit, well, there's another serious problem with that. There aren't that many writers. Playtesters should run into the hundreds of people. How far down the list of d20 writers would you have to go before you're scraping the bottom of the barrel for "published" playtesters?

Just because I wrote a book in no way means that I am qualified to judge a game.

 

[kenobi65]

The one I can come up with really is that in a Living Campaign you can't kill a guy and take his things and make them yours. In a Living Campaign you only get the treasure value of the item and the opportunity to purchase it later on when you can afford it.

Even that varies by campaign. What you describe is true in Living Greyhawk; I know that's not how it works in (the now non-RPGA) Living Arcanis, and I don't think that's how it works in Living Kalamar, either.

 

[Maggan]

Something to remember as well, as far as the whole "house Rules" issue goes is that most, if not all of the house rules WON'T APPLY to the new ruleset. They won't apply because they are house rules for 3.5, not 4e. For the exact same reason that my houserules for 2e don't apply to my 3e games, RPGA's houserules for 3e won't apply to 4e.

That's what I've been thinking as well. People are going to playtest the new edition of 4e, so I think that the last thing they want to do is apply a "3.5 House Rules Bible".

EDIT: At least until AFTER doing the playtest. Which is sorta the point of a playtest; to identify changes that need to be made.


/M

 

[Lanefan]

While having some of the playtest done by hardcore RPGA-ers is fine, I really hope some of it is also done by gathering some random volunteers who have never played before (but are interested), sitting them down with a DM who knows the ropes, and seeing how it flies in a 1st-level, 10th-level, 20th-level, and 30th-level adventure. (the RPGA testing should also cover all the levels)

I'm willing to bet that a significant part of the reason 3e broke down somewhat at higher levels was that most of the playtesting was done at lower levels, with a much smaller amount done at higher (15+) levels. Let's hope they've learned...

Lanefan

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

I wouldn't take a seat at an RPGA table for love or money, but that's a playstyle issue more than anything. I in no way begrudge them - as a community - first crack at the playtest. Those are the rules they'll have to play by or quit to avoid, after all.

Some of their players, OTOH, I wouldn't let near it - in the same way I wouldn't give it to the Dragonsfoot guys to test. "This doesn't work like 3.5! Sucks!"

 

[DonTadow]

...
We are not ignoring any rules.

I did not put my feet on that man's couch. I'm a grown man, what do i look like rubbing my feet on someone's couch- paraphrased Rick James.

We may choose not to use certain feats or spells in the game due to their unbalancing nature in our play structure but we're not changing them.

Yeah I put my feet on his couch.

Wow, what an ambiguous statement. We use a 3.5 book, but we add and subtract only a few rules. And to clarify, most of the things banned and forbidden are those things that are role playing specific, which is not one of the formats strong suits.

But again, lets get on topic. This is not a kick the Rpga in the head thread. You clearly, by your own admission, can not play an rpg game like you can a real homebrew game. We're talkinga bout testing. When you are testing something you need subjects that are 100 percent compatible with the product you are testing, else you will get in accurate results. A homebrew environment is the only true environment to test the product for the market they are aiming at, UNLESS they are aiming at a more hack and slash game, which drops my anticipation of 4e down a few notches.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Don,

I think that there may be a flaw in your premise.

The fact that a group of playtesters is being drawn from the RPGA membership doesn't imply that they are going to be running 4e trial games at RPGA events in RPGA style. In fact they wouldn't be able to, unless they were carrying around a sheaf of NDA's with them, would they?

All it means is that WotC know that there is a group of committed and experienced DMs who are used to recording stuff and working within a structured setup. I imagine that they will be running 4e tests in their home groups just like DnDinsider people will be.

Some of the best DMs that I've experienced have also been RPGA DMs at some point in the past too. Didn't make their home game like an RPGA game.

Cheers

 

[D'karr]

[snip] We're talkinga bout testing. When you are testing something you need subjects that are 100 percent compatible with the product you are testing, else you will get in accurate results. A homebrew environment is the only true environment to test the product for the market they are aiming at, UNLESS they are aiming at a more hack and slash game, which drops my anticipation of 4e down a few notches.

[sarcasm] Of course you are not being offensive when you imply that the RPGA is only for hack and slash. [/sarcasm]

Dude, I'm not sure what your beef is but it seems obvious that you don't know what you are talking about. Please explain what subject is 100% compatible with this product (4e). Because if you can define that accurately you probably just won the internet. That is an absurd notion.

Gaming groups come from all walks of life and all different styles. And guess what, so does the RPGA membership. So to imply that the only way to test the product accurately is not to have the RPGA hack and slashers have a crack at it is truly monumental in its misinformation.

Wow, just wow. I'm not even sure if this is not just a joke.

 

[The_Baldman]

I did not put my feet on that man's couch. I'm a grown man, what do i look like rubbing my feet on someone's couch- paraphrased Rick James.


Yeah I put my feet on his couch.

Wow, what an ambiguous statement. We use a 3.5 book, but we add and subtract only a few rules.

No not ambiguous at all. The things we don't use are some feats, spells, and prestige classes. We are not ignoring or changing rules. We are just choosing not to use some of the added material that is based upon the ruleset and not part of the ruleset. There's a difference and a pretty big one. Added feats are not rules. Rules are how feats are used, gained, and dictate play. The fact we don't use Divine Metamagic for example is not changing or ignoring a rule. We just choose in the LG campaign (other campaigns use it just fine) to not use that spell due to it's unbalancing nature in short play sessions. I would guess most home games have more home rules then we do but your not going to believe that regardless of what I or anybody else says. Like I said I will put our judges up against anybody for 3.5 rules knowledge right out of the books and bet some money on top of it. Disagree all you want but the people that actually matter (Wotc R&D) agree.

Dave C

 

[Badkarmaboy]

So on my way to this thread today I saw this big, stinking, dead horse with boot prints all over it.

I enjoyed reading your posts Dave (wavester). Very well put.

As an aside-my BEST role-playing experience EVER occurred at Winter Fantasy 2006 (which Dave coordinated, btw). I was scheduled to play in the Living Greyhawk Open Fiesta. For those who are unfamiliar with LG, the world is divided into core, regional and meta-regional areas. Regions and meta-regions correspond with actual geographic areas in the world (meta-regions being composed of multiple regions). Anyone can play a core adventure but you must be physically present in a region or meta-region to play an adventure from said area. The Open Fiesta is one round where that restriction is thrown off and you can play any adventure from anywhere. I was supposed to play an Onnwal (the UK in the real world) adventure with Creighton Broadhurst (the guy who "runs" LG) as my DM. So cool, right!? Anyway, Creighton had to leave for a family emergency so Dave had to find another person from the UK to run the adventure. There were not that many suffice to say. He found a gentleman (an eccentric gentleman) named Ratty. Ratty, as I understand it, is a big help with handling the admin of D&DXP so getting him to run a mod was no easy task. So, with little to no prep time Ratty sat down with the 6 of us from all over the US and ran us through one of the most incredible adventures ever. His powers of description, command of the NPCs and ability to narrate the mod were second to none. We RP'd out buts off and we all had an absolute blast. That, friends and neighbors is what D&D is all about (at least in my book).

So, to those who think that the RPGA is just a bunch of cheesy hacks, you are sadly mistaken. That is akin to saying that all home groups are full of drama queens or Puerto Ricans can teleport. It's just not true. Is it a perfect organization? Nope. Will the folks selected to play test 4E do a phenomenal job of stressing the system? You bet.

Phew...

edited for grammar