D&D 4E Really?? Is RPGA really the best place to test 4e

[AdmundfortGeographer]

This assumes that the rules for AoO, grappling, and turning undead are, in fact, overly complex AND that overcomplexity could have been discovered given the parameters of the playtesting.

Giving the parameters of the playtesting of 3e, it is possible some RPGA testers found it but the designers felt it wasn't going to be a big problem that it deserved changing.

Just because the problems are there in 3e doesn't mean some playtesters didn't see it already. Playtesting isn't some panacea.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

We needn't speculate that RPGA members are far from ideal as playtesters; we already know it as a fact. There's a precedent: When 3.0 was being developed, it was playtested by RPGA members. They left in overly complex rules including those for AoOs, grappling and turning undead. All of these things should have been spotted and fixed in playtesting but weren't. The very first time I read the 3.0 PHB and saw these rules, I wondered why they hadn't been identified by the playtesters and returned to the design team for revision. Could it be that the RPGA just wasn't up to the task?

If you develop something (in this case 3E) and the people who were supposed to test it don't do a good job, you shouldn't trust them to test the next generation of whatever it is you're developing (i.e. 4E).

Except there are different aims of playtesting and nobody is suitable for dealing with all of them. RPGA members might be perfect for finding every loophole that can destroy issues of "balance" in the game, as sidonunspa seems to have experienced with Living Arcanis.

At the same time, RPGA members might be considered to be a little more "hardcore" gamers who are willing to accept complexity in the game. They may not be the best for realizing that some rules are too complex and bog down play, especially for more "casual" gamers.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I was reading posts to an article on the Survivor seaon where it was all racial teams. One of the responses said that folks should get away from old stereotypes and use the cool new ones, like Puerto Ricans and teleport and Chinese people taste like candy. I almost shot diet wild cherry pepsi on my keyboard.

That's actually a comedian's routine from awhile back.

I want to say Pablo Francisco, but that could be wrong.

 

[Wormwood]

That's actually a comedian's routine from awhile back.

I want to say Pablo Francisco, but that could be wrong.

Louis C.K., I believe.

 

[Badkarmaboy]

Louis C.K., I believe.

Really? I'll have to check that out.

 

[DonTadow]

So, to those who think that the RPGA is just a bunch of cheesy hacks, you are sadly mistaken. That is akin to saying that all home groups are full of drama queens or Puerto Ricans can teleport. It's just not true. Is it a perfect organization? Nope. Will the folks selected to play test 4E do a phenomenal job of stressing the system? You bet.

Phew...

edited for grammar

Again, not ragging on the rpga. There may be a few really good dms out there and af ew good players, but most of the games and people i've played with have been geared more toward hack and slash.

I'm not knocking that playstyle, but its not what a majority of people play. It fits well into a convention or group setting. Rpga is a different type of game. The people who play solely rpga stuff are a a different subset of d and d gamer. It just makes more sense if wotc diversified its playtesting so that another 3.0 fiasco is not on our hands.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

There may be a few really good dms out there and af ew good players, but most of the games and people i've played with have been geared more toward hack and slash.

. . . may be. . .
. . . a few . . .
Your doubts are your own.

It fits well into a convention or group setting.

I'll repeat, again, most RPGA play is done in the home.

The people who play solely rpga stuff are a a different subset of d and d gamer.

FACT: The people who solely play RPGA stuff, and have never played D&D in a home campaign in their life, are a tiny subset of RPGA members.

That doesn't mean even that tiny subset don't know the game. Even though you seem to imply that that tiny subset of RPGA members should be excluded from playtesting on the criteria that you have a distaste for their choices.

 

[Hussar]

I'm not knocking that playstyle, but its not what a majority of people play.

Prove it. Prove to me that a majority of people who play D&D aren't in it for the hack factor. Considering EVERY other gamer in the world thinks that this is EXACTLY why we play D&D, I ask you to prove them wrong. I ask you to prove conclusively that D&D gamers in the majority are into deep immersion gaming and that the fact that 90% of the ruleset revolves around combat has no impact on what happens at the table.

I'll be over here in the corner waiting.

 

[HellHound]

I'll just throw in my 5c here.

100% of the RPGA events I've played in have been positive experiences, and had a lot of role-playing. One of them was 75% or so (roughly) interpersonal roleplaying, with very little combat.

 

[gothmaugCC]

Sigh...This post has been going on for 3 days now.

I think everyone here basically agrees that when it comes to the mechanics of the game, the RPGA is the best place to go. It has a huge archive of players with tangible experience that the people at WoTC can quantify.

Is it the best environment to test the Rp end of the game? Well it seem here that peoples' opinions vary. But I'd bet my bottom dollar that WoTC is looking for a test on the ruleset and not the storyties.

Face it, at its core this game we play called DnD is basically mechanics on how to kill stuff, take its loot, and get better while doing so. Everything else that we enjoy about the game are the story experiences the individual judges and players bring to the table. AND that changes to suit differnt groups and different playstyles. But EVERYONE uses the combat and leveling mechanics. its the meat and potatoes of the game.

So yes, the RPGA is still the best place to playtest the game in a reasonable amount of time across a wide audience.

Gothmaug.