D&D 4E Really?? Is RPGA really the best place to test 4e

[GSHamster]

Part of the problem with the RPGA is that it only takes one person to spoil an otherwise good game. If 5 out of 6 people at the table are awesome, that last guy can suck the life out of the game.

I've only ever played one RPGA game. The adventure was kind of mediocre (I think at one point we were delivering fruit!), but the DM was good and the majority of the players were good.

But when the main plot hook was revealed, one player absolutely refused to go along with the adventure. He tried to have some sort of roleplay justification, but I think his character was just really close to levelling, and he didn't think we would survive. So we had to go on shorthanded, after arguing with him for 15 minutes.

The other players at the table were good and fun to play with, but this one guy essentially spoiled what would have been a decent game. And if all you need to screw up the game is one bad apple, then the RPGA doesn't look promising, not when I can play with real life friends who I know are not stupid.

(Then there was another guy who thought playing the fumbling wizard was cool. Casting web and trapping half the party for no good reason. But he wasn't that bad, and at least he tried.)

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Back on topic, though, I think the RPGA is a good place to test the rules, if only because it is very well organized.

 

[Glyfair]

In my (admittedly brief) experience with the RPGA, I became reacquainted with folks who had been ejected from numerous local non-RPGA games and who had been largely ostracized from local gaming outside of the RPGA due to their personality traits or conduct.

I'm not surprised. A group like the RPGA needs rules about who is allowed to play in public games or else the right would be abused (and I've seen attempts at such). Because of these rules it's usually complicated for an event organizer to remove someone from event without cause.

On the other hand, it's always very easy for the venue to kick the offensive player out, if he's that bad. Every organized play program I've been involved with allows the venue to ban people from their stores, and they aren't required to break that ban for the organized play (and many are even somewhat flexible on this). I've seen this in action as well (with a player who was a proven cheat & thief). The trick is having a good FLGS that will enforce such things for major problem players.

I know of people who would join in RPGA events *simply* to disrupt them and make life difficult for the other players and the DM. They did this because they hated the RPGA and wanted to give it grief.

I've heard stories about Living Greyhawk players deliberately choosing to play in the inaugural Xen'drik Expeditions campaign just to disrupt the game because they felt those games were taking away from the Living Greyhawk. Apparently it was just one or two small groups, but that's the sort of thing that gives an organization a bad name. It's probably not that unusual as well (look at these very forums and you'll see people who dislike a setting because they feel it's getting the attention their favorite setting deserves).

One thing I've noticed in my RPGA experience is that it does seem the rules-lawyers (in the bad sense of the word) and munchkins (as in "gamers who break the rules in order to gain an advantage" sense) hurt the organization as a whole. The whole RPGA campaigns series have become buried in paperwork just because they are afraid of someone abusing something (and I understand the Living Campaigns are worse in paperwork). All those weird rules and large amounts of paperwork have driven away my potential players and DMs. They don't want to deal with it, especially when it's likely to be something they drop in and out of.

 

[gothmaugCC]

EDIT; I'm too tired to edit this right now, so excuse the spelling, ill get it tomorrow.

I've played years and years worth of RPGA games in numerous states, in both Local games and conventions. Yes, Every RPGA locality has an offensive member or two kicking around somewhere, but then again any place wher ea bunch of people congregate theres bound to be individuals like that. In my experience, what happens though is these people are usually quickly recognized by the local gaming community, and end up being ostracized. No one wants to sit at a table with them. Most often, these players end up sitting at tables with people brand new, who havent had time to make connections.

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that alot of introductory bad experiences with RPGa gams come from such a scenaroi, ESPECIALLY at conventions where unless you show up with a bunch of friends, you end up sitting with random players.

*Shrug* Me, I tend to get along fine with everyone. If someone grated on me a bit, I try to just sit at a differnt table next time. The one nice thing about RPGA games is you CAN play with a different grgoup of players each week if you want to . Our local gaming circles hold about 100 or so RPGA members, and most local events (held at gaming stores or peoples houses) attract 4-5 tables worth of gamers. We all genreally know each other, our reputations and our individual playstyles, so we rarely have problems anymore. Out of those 5 tables, theres always one table of so called "powergamers" 2 tables of heavy RP'ers, and the rest are usually a mix of casual gamers with a smattering of the other types.

The one thing we try and do as organizers is whenever a new player appears, we usually try and seat them with a table of veteran gamers, most often the Roleplayer heavy tables or a casual table with some of the more experienced veterans there to help them out.

anyhow im done rambling. You know, i really should start an RPGA post on these forums somewhere, to fill in all those who havent yet given it a try as to how it works, and the kinds of games you can play. Personally my favorites are so called "home events", usually run at someones house, composing of 1 or 2 tables tops. These games are really no different than my home campaign; i see the same players time and again. The differnce is, I can play my same character with different people and differnt character class mixes, each time. That's led to meeting some great people, and making great freinds. And isn't that what this game is all about, no matter the version we play?

 

[Glyfair]

The one nice thing about RPGA games is you CAN play with a different grgoup of players each week if you want to . Our local gaming circles hold about 100 or so RPGA members, and most local events (held at gaming stores or peoples houses) attract 4-5 tables worth of gamers.

Which is great for your area, but every area isn't like that. At one FLGS play in we were lucky to get 2 tables for a game. At the other FLGS we get more, but only a small, insular, group are interested in the RPGA. Avoiding those players becomes a problem (admittedly, I've only once had to deal with it in the local area RPGA events).

Most often, these players end up sitting at tables with people brand new, who havent had time to make connections.

Then do you really wonder why people's reaction to the RPGA can be so negative when the new players are the ones saddled with the objectionable players? What a great introduction to the RPGA!

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Then do you really wonder why people's reaction to the RPGA can be so negative when the new players are the ones saddled with the objectionable players? What a great introduction to the RPGA!

Yeah, I know. It doesn't happen on purpose, but it happens. I know out of the 6 or 7 regular DMs in our area, a good 2 or 3 of them are kind of bad. They'll give people a minimum experience when they run a Living Greyhawk mod. It won't be horrible, and if you are used to the ups and downs in quality of DMs that Living Greyhawk creates, you'll write it off as one bad experience.

However, given we only have maybe 2 or 3 DMs show up for one of our games days, and one or even 2 of them are the bad ones....well, it becomes difficult NOT to let them DM. I'd rather give people a minimum experience than no experience at all when they travel out to the store to play a game.

The experienced players in our area will try to get into a game run by one of the good DMs. Also, all the players who are used to playing together have similar level characters and want to play their level 8 or 10 characters. So, the new people all get stuck together with the people who rarely show up and therefore have low level characters. It's an unintentional side effect of the system.

 

[kenobi65]

I really wish there were more RPGA games where advancement was by vote for role-playing. (Are there any anymore?)

Nope. The RPGA did away with table voting, as a whole, in late 2002/early 2003, or thereabouts. And, RPGA "classics" (adventures with pregenerated characters, as Piratecat was describing) have also fundamentally ceased to exist. Demand for Classic modules apparently declined as the number of RPGA campaign options increased, though fans of Classics also faulted the "newer" Classic modules, which didn't contain the detailed character backgrounds that the older ones did.

The only exception to that now is the D&D Open at GenCon, and even that has never been much about roleplaying, and you advance as an entire table.

NASCRAG, which ran the old FEZ/ZEF modules in the '80s, still runs their stuff at GenCon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASCRAG

 

[Jin_Kataki]

I would just like to point out something odd I have noticed on this thread. Several times now on this thread I have noticed the OP get "warned" that he has stepped over some line. As an outside observer if anyone on this thread has gotten in any way condescending or insulting it has been the people who feel their toes have been stepped on cause someone is pointing out things that they feel make the RPGA not the most ideal arena with which to playtest 4E. I have also noticed this on other threads. Where people who say something critisizing even if it is not done in an insulting manner they get told by a mod they are out of line. I understand the need to avoid flame wars and petty arguments, but can the regs and mods not handle anyone having a differing opinion? Before you point out the fact that the OP expressed his opinion in way that said he feels his opinion is FACT I saw that. I also saw the same from everyone else though.

Also so people do not get the idea that I am simply saying this in support of the OP cause of some negative feelings I have toward the RPGA. I know absolutely nothing of the RPGA. I have been to one con and did nothing RPGA related.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

As an outside observer if anyone on this thread has gotten in any way condescending or insulting it has been the people who feel their toes have been stepped on cause someone is pointing out things that they feel make the RPGA not the most ideal arena with which to playtest 4E.

Thanks for that broad brush you just painted everyone with. It is broad brush generalizations, similar to this one I just quoted, which get the OP in trouble.

I know absolutely nothing of the RPGA. I have been to one con and did nothing RPGA related.

Again. Most RPGA play is done in the home. It isn't even close.

 

[Jin_Kataki]

I am sorry, but I do not really under stand what you are talking about. One only has to read the thread to see the people who have gotten the most heated on this thread are people who feel the OP has critisized them and they don't like it. I never said it was everyone and I never lumped all the people who disagreed with him together so where is it that I made a generalization in that quote. I admit I did say more than that and there have may been a generalization somewhere in my post cause lets face it many many many people do make generalizations weather intentional or not. I am no exception. My point still stands. I see allot of this go on here. Someone makes a statement regarding a strong dislike about something and even when it is expressed in a civil manner I see them get these "warnings" that they have crossed some line.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I am sorry, but I do not really under stand what you are talking about. One only has to read the thread to see the people who have gotten the most heated on this thread are people who feel the OP has critisized them and they don't like it.

If you didn't mean to lump everyone you ought to have said:

As an outside observer if anyone on this thread has gotten in any way condescending or insulting it has been some of the people who feel their toes have been stepped on . . . .
​

It is perfectly reasonable for any reader to take "the people" to mean all of them.

Someone makes a statement regarding a strong dislike about something and even when it is expressed in a civil manner I see them get these "warnings" that they have crossed some line.

This is the thing, when you start out by implying that others' style of gaming is less than, or even not D&D, it is an insult no matter how civil it is dressed up. I've read the thread, I've participated in it all along.