Reaper to produce pre-painted Plastic minis - Non-random

[Thunderfoot]

Because plastic prepainted miniatures look like junk. Yeah, hey, a fighter with a sword that's bent into a "U" that I can't unbend? Yeah give me more of those!

Because plastic prepainted minis are nearly impossible to strip and repaint - at least ddm minis are. I threw simple green at them, alcohol, and my editor used oven cleaner. Nothing doing.

Because all Hasborg needs to do is twitch their little finger and change marketing tactics slightly and suddenly Reaper is stuck with a bunch of miniatures and a manufacturing process that they can't get rid of. When the LEGEND OF FIVE RINGS license went away, or the EXALTED license went away, big deal! They had a few metal molds in Texas they didn't need to use any more. If Reaper is "successful" and does pull a significant number of DDM fans away, a slight adjustment by the multibillion-dollar megacorp behind WotC is all that's required to put an end to the argument ("Sell them non-random, get these guys off our backs.") and suddenly Reaper's audience leaves. If Reaper is unsuccessful? Then they've shot themselves in the foot at the word "go".

It WILL detract from the metal minis. How can spending the bank on a new manufacturing and painting process not detract from metal minis? The money that would have (should have) been spent on the metal minis side of the house is now being put into plastic prepaints. I don't buy it for a second that this won't negatively impact the alloy minis. Not one second.

I see this beginning the end of either the Dark Heaven "RPG" line of minis. Maybe not now, and of course Reaper won't spin it that way. They'll pitch it that if you want a highly detailed character mini, buy one of their wonderful WarLord minis. If you want bulk monsters, then buy the pre-painted plastic ones!

This is just...I just can't see any good coming out of this whatsoever, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry you feel this way...

Personally I haven't got the time to paint metal figs anymore so the pre-painted plastic is a big boon. Yes the DDM paint jobs suck, but if you're going to repaint them, why strip them, they're plastic... In the fourty or so seconds of free time I have at night before bed, I can quickly overpaint and base a fig, finishing a mini on about 10 - 15 days of actual time and only about 10 minutes figurative total - I could NEVER do that with metal.

Yes, I do agree that metal may be going the way of the dodo, and for that I do feel your pain, when there is that one "perfect" pose, you just grab it and build around it...that's pretty much gonna not happen anymore and that stinks. But with the boom of the plastic market, it was probably either this or shut their doors. We know they can make better figs, now we just need to see if they can compete with WotC, give WotCs record, I don;t really see a problem.

 

[Thunderfoot]

If they release 40 a year (which was mentioned previously as what they do for metal), they'll be less then 25% as many as DDM. Which means they won't be "large selection".

I can't imagine they will be "ebay orc" cheap either. But we'll see in another 4 or so months I guess.

My quote, as I said however, they keep them around for longer - so you'll not have to worry if you can find that ogre for less than $12, it'll be in the store waiting for you. Or that Frost Giant that you won't have to spend $25 - $45 for. And who knows, with increased sales (assuming they do increase) that means more 'greens' get purchased, I said they averaged 40 - at one time they were dropping close to 200 a year. (Pre-DDM) If these are successful, who knows?

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

And what would they switch to? Metal? Jelly?

Mmmm....gummi Drizz't DoUrden....<gurgle>

 

[thedungeondelver]

I'm sorry you feel this way...

Personally I haven't got the time to paint metal figs anymore so the pre-painted plastic is a big boon. Yes the DDM paint jobs suck, but if you're going to repaint them, why strip them, they're plastic... In the fourty or so seconds of free time I have at night before bed, I can quickly overpaint and base a fig, finishing a mini on about 10 - 15 days of actual time and only about 10 minutes figurative total - I could NEVER do that with metal.

Yeah, but I - and tens of thousands of others do have the time. We make the time. I'm married, have a child, and am a writer but by god if I see a mini I like and I want a good paintjob on it - and I have a lot like that - I'm going to make the time to paint it.

But it appears - like a lot of things - the wants and likes of a bunch of old complainers aren't being heard. Or if they are, they're not cared about.

Yes, I do agree that metal may be going the way of the dodo, and for that I do feel your pain, when there is that one "perfect" pose, you just grab it and build around it...that's pretty much gonna not happen anymore and that stinks. But with the boom of the plastic market, it was probably either this or shut their doors. We know they can make better figs, now we just need to see if they can compete with WotC, give WotCs record, I don;t really see a problem.

I don't buy that at all. It's a money grab, an attempt to get a piece of the pie. LIke the companies that all dropped good, well thought out homegrown rule systems to pump out d20 sludge. Most of those companies are dead now.

I'm sorry. This just sucks.

 

[thedungeondelver]

WOTC (and TSR before them) never figured out how to make money from non-randomized metal miniatures, either, but Reaper's obviously figured that one out.

WOTC is the market-leader for roleplaying, and I'd be inclined to listen them when they talk about the roleplaying market. The miniatures market? Not so much.

Reaper's done it through quality and through tight, smart inventory control.

Or rather "did it" since they now think that this is the new way.

Mark my words, this is the beginning of a bad way for Reaper. I hope it isn't true but dammit, I think this is a big, big mistake.

 

[Thunderfoot]

I don't buy that at all. It's a money grab, an attempt to get a piece of the pie. LIke the companies that all dropped good, well thought out homegrown rule systems to pump out d20 sludge. Most of those companies are dead now.

I'm sorry. This just sucks.

I'm not sure, there was a study that someone posted somewhere (please dear God somebody find it) that showed the Reaper was a niche company to start with and that in the metal minis market wasn't even one of the 'big boys' anymore, if that is true, I have to think this is their last ditch effort to stay afloat. WotC doesn't have the power to close down companies, but their brand loyaty is enough to steer the market where they want it to go. It's a sad fact, but a fact none the less - is t about money, you're darn right it is, no one gets in to business to hand out charity, except charities. If Reaper has decided that the cash model goes the way of pre-paint and plastic, that is the way the the product line will follow, plain simple basic business. Does it suck, yes, is it going to change because people complain, no, is that unfortunate, yes.

As for ten of thousands of painters - the attendance at the paint and take table was down something like 50+%, if they are going to make the move, there is no time like the present. If you think you have a legitmate gripe (and I think you do, actually) have you contacted Reaper directly? They have a messageboard too and are usually pretty good about answering question - as far as customer service, they are still a 'big boy' in the market. That would be my first action if I were you. Hope this gives at least a glimmer of hope.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I know it's apples and organes, but wasn't it Warhammer the kept Chainmail down? It was a skrimish game, not a collection of miniatures like their original 25th anniversary bits no?

I'd say it was the terrible production that kept chainmail down, as well as a horrendously crappy selection of D&D monsters.

Not a single dragon produced until the line was dead, no mind flayer, and many other iconic monsters. Primarily just more of the same elves, knights, dwarves etc that I could get anywhere else (and cheaper).

On top of that, the casting was poor, with massive flash lines and sculpts that didnt fit together. If you got all the pieces that is.

I'll hold my judgment of these minis. If they can crank out the equivalent of large uncommons for less than 2 dollars, awesome. Its all about value for me, and theres no way I'm paying 3 dollars for a generic orc or skeleton.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

WOTC (and TSR before them) never figured out how to make money from non-randomized metal miniatures, either, but Reaper's obviously figured that one out.

They probably made money, just not ENOUGH money. From what I gather, Hasbro/WOTC expects bigger returns on an investment for it to be considered viable. A profit isnt sufficient.

 

[kenobi65]

Usually in the neghborhood of about 40 (sometimes less, sometimes more)

At least. I haven't gone back in and counted, but it seems like, most months, they release at least a half-dozen new fantasy minis (between the Dark Heaven and Warlord lines), and sometimes more.

Example: in February, they released 11 new Dark Heaven minis, and 9 new Warlord minis (across 2 separate releases, one on 2/12, one on 2/26). In March, they're going to be releasing 7 new Dark Heavens and 3 new Warlords.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Yeah, but I - and tens of thousands of others do have the time. We make the time. I'm married, have a child, and am a writer but by god if I see a mini I like and I want a good paintjob on it - and I have a lot like that - I'm going to make the time to paint it.

But it appears - like a lot of things - the wants and likes of a bunch of old complainers aren't being heard. Or if they are, they're not cared about.

Tens of thousands? Sorry man, you're simply a smaller market. Playing D&D is one hobby, and painting miniatures is another. By definition, the group of people that does both of these will be smaller than the group that plays D&D, even if the massively well-selling D&D Miniatures line wasn't enough evidence that some people want to play their D&D without worrying about painting up twenty goblins and a lich.

Also, quite frankly, plastic tends be to a better miniatures material. It sounds like blasphemy, I know, but it's cheaper, easier to kitbash, weighes less, doesn't require foam cases to store, and isn't destroyed if you drop it on a tile floor. It can also hold just as much in the way of detail as metal can, assuming the proper type of plastic. I've seen some absolutely steller DDM repaints, just as good as anything done in metal.

Your hobby isn't dying, but it -is- changing. Will you change with it?