D&D 5E Reasonable Movement and Athletic Feats?

[mrpopstar]

No. Speaking for anyone I know irl, we don’t choose how big the gap is based on player abilities.

As the Dungeon Master, I always reference character sheets when designing challenges. I create gaps with intention!

 

[Xeviat]

Where in a character's career are we putting the baseline? Low levels similar to RL humans, and matched up to wizards who can teleport 20ft and levitate?
Or high levels where they are competing with demigods in feats of athleticism, and matched up to wizards who can teleport across the world, stop time, and transform into dragons?

Somewhere between level 4 and 8. I'd have to do the old 3E math on treating Winter as a CR X encounter and how high level regular people get ... but 3E had XP drop off and points where you stopped getting XP so it was easier ... also 3E pretended to be simulationist.

Usain Bolt topped out at like 29 mph, and (I don't have my numbers with me) had a ridiculous speed for 2 "rounds". I think his performance should be doable by an 8th level character who spent both of their ASIs on feats, and maaaaaaaaaaaybe is utilizing something like Cunning action to get extra movement (I don't like having to make every athlete a rogue or a monk to get double dash, I actually don't like double dashing and think cunning action is about doing two things at once so double dashing shouldn't be there ... that's a different thread). But 29 mph requires like 300 movement and with a base speed of 30, +10 for a feat still requires a x7 multiplier for running and that's really high.

High level non-casters should be able to do mythic/tall tales level feats of ridiculousness. I don't think only spells should do fun stuff.

Other than sprinting speed, what's probably more applicable to adventuring is long distance jogging. Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas ran for how long? Humans can hold a double move (6 mph) for a really, really, really long time when they're fit.

 

[Xeviat]

No. Speaking for anyone I know irl, we don’t choose how big the gap is based on player abilities.

You don't know me IRL, so me saying that I do choose how big the gap is (or how deep the gorge is) based on character abilities. Heck, doesn't the DMG have a spot about hazard damage and CR and reference it to falling damage?

 

[Garthanos]

Other than sprinting speed, what's probably more applicable to adventuring is long distance jogging. Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas ran for how long? Humans can hold a double move (6 mph) for a really, really, really long time when they're fit.

I remember calculating for Gilgamesh it was a flat out sprint on the order of approaching USAIN Bolt for a days and days. I might have to go redo that computation.

 

[Xeviat]

But, lets be clear, I think any PC class above, like, lets say 4th level, should be legendary and doing things above and beyond regular people. I think a 20th level fighter should be doing things that are physics defying and not have to use magic items.

I miss 4E and wish it had done more with skill tricks.

 

[Garthanos]

But, lets be clear, I think any PC class above, like, lets say 4th level, should be legendary and doing things above and beyond regular people. I think a 20th level fighter should be doing things that are physics defying and not have to use magic items.

I consider 5e level 5 level 1 in 4e and there after divide advancement by 2 so 20th 5e is 30th 4e.

I miss 4E and wish it had done more with skill tricks.

Welcome to my parlor (make a post flagged 4e about your idea?)
I have been considering a merging of skill powers with Martial practices with perhaps a dash of Martial Cantrips

 

[DND_Reborn]

Well, let's round the current WR for the 100-m to 9.6 (roughly that, given wind, etc.), which is 23.3 mph FWIW. Doing the conversion for us non-metric users into feet.

100 m == 328' 1"
328 / 9.6 == 34.18 ft/ sec.
34.18 * 6 = 205.08 ft/ round

Using a move and dash to double speed would require a Speed 102.54 (205.08 / 2)

Using a move and double-dash via Step of the Wind, even a 20th level monk (Speed 60) couldn't reach the required Speed 68.36. Playing in a feat-less game, pretty much makes this impossible without magic.

Even my personal best 100-m (11.5 seconds) would mean I had a Speed of 85 (given the move + dash mechanic as is).

For people who are suggesting IRL world record potential at low-levels (4-5), I think that is a bit low-balling RL accomplishments. I could see more Tier 3 at least required for world record performance equivalent. That is why I miss things like the Expert non-heroic classes.

So, how can we achieve a Speed of over 100 using, say a STR 16 (strong but not crazy strong) and proficiency bonus of +4 or +5 (maybe expertise to double it--but I would rather not depend on that), and given a base Speed 30?

 

[FrogReaver]

Well, let's round the current WR for the 100-m to 9.6 (roughly that, given wind, etc.), which is 23.3 mph FWIW. Doing the conversion for us non-metric users into feet.

100 m == 328' 1"
328 / 9.6 == 34.18 ft/ sec.
34.18 * 6 = 205.08 ft/ round

Using a move and dash to double speed would require a Speed 102.54 (205.08 / 2)

Using a move and double-dash via Step of the Wind, even a 20th level monk (Speed 60) couldn't reach the required Speed 68.36. Playing in a feat-less game, pretty much makes this impossible without magic.

Even my personal best 100-m (11.5 seconds) would mean I had a Speed of 85 (given the move + dash mechanic as is).

For people who are suggesting IRL world record potential at low-levels (4-5), I think that is a bit low-balling RL accomplishments. I could see more Tier 3 at least required for world record performance equivalent. That is why I miss things like the Expert non-heroic classes.

So, how can we achieve a Speed of over 100 using, say a STR 16 (strong but not crazy strong) and proficiency bonus of +4 or +5 (maybe expertise to double it--but I would rather not depend on that), and given a base Speed 30?

I would say that the move action and dash action don't correspond to flat out sprinting in one direction on level ground with no gear.

 

[Guest 6801328]

No. Speaking for anyone I know irl, we don’t choose how big the gap is based on player abilities.

I'm not suggesting you, or I, or anybody else look at the character sheets and say, "Hmm....17.5 feet will be just right for this group."

But, knowing the rules, might you put a 5' gap where you want some flavor but no challenge, a 10' gap to cause a slight challenge, and a 15' gap to cause serious complications/risks in the middle of an encounter?

All I'm saying is that if the rules allowed characters to jump farther, those numbers might become 10/15/20, or whatever, negating the gains of the rule change.

That said, I do think the game would be better if there was some amount of unpredictability to the whole thing. Maybe something like:
- Using strength + Athletics proficiency, determine the distance you will always succeed without a roll.
- If you want to jump father, the DC is 10 + (additional distance) / X, where X is some constant.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I would say that the move action and dash action don't correspond to flat out sprinting in one direction on level ground with no gear.

I agree. But that is the only mechanic we have in the book.

Regardless, the current system only allows for a maximum movement of 60 feet per round by a normal person.

That's the equivalent of a 32.8 second 100-meter dash (basically a jog). Even at 46 now, I can move way faster than that, carrying some gear, and being overweight some (like when I go hiking). For a short distance, say 5 rounds or 30 seconds, I could nearly double that even now!

We're talking movements and speeds, even over "rougher" terrain and with some gear, that are hardly exceptional by any standard IMO--but the system as is simply doesn't model that. Of course, it is a game, and that wasn't the intent, but for people who do want rules to handle such things, there should be something.

That is what I am asking for: how, using the present mechanics, can we do it?