Reasons for taking +2 to skills Feats?


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MerricB said:
For NPCs. :)

No, seriously, it's the reason for a lot of these sorts of feats (like Toughness)

I don't even give toughness to my NPCs unless it's to qualify for something.

And if its in a existing creature writeup, I'll swap it out.
 


Celebrim said:
Your point is only valid when you spend the feat to improve something that you don't intend to invest anything else in AND the skill is one where the challenges tend to scale with level.

Exactly. And if I use a feat to boost a particular skill (or two), that skill must be pretty central to my character concept. So it's pretty sure I'm also going to be buying skill ranks as I go up. So I'm generally interested in the DCs that, for my particular skill level, are neither automatic success nor automatic failure. For any task in a very wide range (a spread of 19 DCs) +2 always increases the chance of success by 10%.

As to the original question: What good are these feats? It depends on the pair of skills. Some of them are really natural pairs, like Stealthy or Alertness. It's not hard to imagine a character concept for which both Spot and Listen are central, or both Hide and Move Silently. In fact, in each case, a character putting a lot of skill points into one of those skills usually also puts a lot into its companion. For others, like Magical Aptitude, the combination is just silly. Seriously, what kind of character wants to develop both Spellcraft and UMD? Spellcraft is best used by the kind of class that doesn't need UMD. There's a reason there isn't a single class (well, core class at least -- although I'd be surprised if anyone's developed a non-core class with both) that has both of those as class skills.

The folks at WotC evidently decided that all skills should be paired up, and had to be very creative to cover them all. Well, almost all. They didn't even try to include the various Craft, Perform, Profession and Knowledge skills, and Concentration got left out, the victim of Odd Number Disease. The might as well have thrown up their hands and left UMD out -- matching it to Spellcraft really doesn't make sense.
 

molonel said:
Err ... yes. One of the problems of skills in d20 is that at mid-levels, or at least certainly at high levels...But I still disagree.

You do realize, don't you, that you didn't actually say anything in all of that which challenges my point? What's the point of claiming to disagree if you can't actually think of a reason to disagree?
 

Cel,

Uhm because he felt like saying "I disagree but I can't honestly type it out in a coherent fashion so just accept that I'm disagreeing?" ;)
 

I don't think it's a particular problem with the skill feats themselves, so much as the relative dearth of feats for most classes. With so few feats, I just don't think the skill feats are attractive for what they give, versus the majority of other feats.

If I were to fix it within the feat-system, I'd probably allow the two skills to be class skills for the character, or perhaps add ranks in a skill. Personally though, I would divorce the skill feats (and maybe Skill Focus) from the feat system entirely, and make skills their own thing. I don't think skills get enough love tied into feats.
 

Light,

Maybe there needs to be a feat that allows you to take like two feats every time you gain a level for a feat. ;)
 

Nightfall said:
Psion,

What do you usually swap out Toughness for? I mean does it depend on the NPC/monster or what?

Whatever I feel it needs.

Or lacking anything else, improved toughness.
 

Doesn't improved toughness require toughness?

But I do see what you mean about "what it might lack." Erm sort of.
 

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