Reasons for taking +2 to skills Feats?

[molonel]

If I'd been writing the books, I would have made a feat that was something like, "Skillful - Pick any two feats and gain a +2 bonus in each."

I'm so tired of supplements where it feels like half of the feat section is stocked with +2/+2 feats like Expert Nosepicker.

 

[Nightfall]

LOL! Expert nose picker...

 

[molonel]

+2 Sleight of Hand and +2 Profession: Miner.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

In my experience, +2/+2 feats just don't mean a whole lot at upper levels. If that hasn't been your experience, then God bless you.

But I still disagree.

Nimble Fingers, Stealthy, and Alertness all seem to be good options. Lock and trap DCs generally keep pace with rogue skills, as do the Hide, Move Silently, Spot, and Listen skills of many foes.

Search is probably the most important skill to get as high as possible, since magic trap DCs are SO high and you want to be able to catch them by taking 10 walking down that corridor. The +2/+2 feat (Investigator) is not as good as Skill Focus in this case, since Gather Information doesn't have high DC checks all that often, but the feats do stack.

In my experience, the main problem with skill-boosting feats is something else entirely -- DM fiat. If the rogue's player is so intent on their PC not falling prey to traps that they have invested three feats (toss in Aberration Blood) to get a Search check capable of making on "Take 10" what most other rogues would only get on an 18, and the DM decides to raise all the trap DCs to foil this... then the player has wasted the feats. Might as well have taken Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack, if the trap DC was always going to be "15 higher than your skill modifier." So, as a DM, I try to keep a static world with DCs that are what they are. If the rogue can defeat a by-the-book CR 7 trap at 3rd level, having given up the power to be effective in a fight, then that's fine with me. If the rogue has neglected those skills and the party is TPK'd at 8th level by that CR 7 trap... those are the breaks.

 

[Celebrim]

Nimble Fingers, Stealthy, and Alertness all seem to be good options.

Alertness is an excellent feat. You can never have too much spot and listen, no matter what your class, and not every opposed hide check is go to scale with level. Some monsters will still be mediocre at ambushes, no real challenge for the rogue, but you don't want the rogue to always be the only member of the party that isn't surprised. Every time you aren't suprised, its one more valuable action you've hoarded.

In my experience, the main problem with skill-boosting feats is something else entirely -- DM fiat. If the rogue's player is so intent on their PC not falling prey to traps that they have invested three feats (toss in Aberration Blood) to get a Search check capable of making on "Take 10" what most other rogues would only get on an 18, and the DM decides to raise all the trap DCs to foil this... then the player has wasted the feats. Might as well have taken Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack, if the trap DC was always going to be "15 higher than your skill modifier."

Absolutely. This is a very good point. (One of my favorite characters was lost to this very sort of DM meta-gaming, which has left me with lifetime loathing of campaigns that rely to much on extemporaneous rather than prepared challenges.) As a DM, when the DC of something isn't fixed necessarily, I try to choose my DC's so that they scale solely with the party level, and not with what is necessary to challenge a particular player. I don't think there is anything wrong with, "15 higher than average party level", but you are right to point out that "15 higher than your skill modifier" is very poor DMing. If a player is to be good at something, then they should be good at that and the big challenges should be coming from what they neglected.

 

[Nightfall]

+2 Sleight of Hand and +2 Profession: Miner.

Right well I was thinking something else but eh...

 

[Storm Raven]

If I'd been writing the books, I would have made a feat that was something like, "Skillful - Pick any two feats and gain a +2 bonus in each."

I'm so tired of supplements where it feels like half of the feat section is stocked with +2/+2 feats like Expert Nosepicker.

From my house rules:

Skill Bonus Feats: There are several feats that give a +2 bonus to two skills, such as Alertness, Diligent, Investigator, Stealthy and so on. Rather than having a dozen or more feats that basically do the same thing, I’m collapsing them into a single feat with the following text:

Skill Augmentation [General]
Choose two related skills.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all checks involving those two skills.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new pair of skills.

 

[Nightfall]

Nice job Stormy.

 

[Celebrim]

From my house rules:

You and most everyone else that I've met. I was surprised when it didn't make it into 3.5 edition. When it didn't, I assumed it was solely because '+2 X/+2 Y' feats made good easy to create filler, much like PrC's and humanoids vaguely resembling some animal: Aardvark folk, Louse-folk, Parrot-folk, and the like.

 

[Aaron L]

Honestly, I can't see any reason at all for taking those feats. Extreme desperation, maybe. Utter devotion to a character concept to the detriment of its effectiveness, I guess. (but part of the concept of all my characters is the desire to be a competent adventurer. Otherwise the character would stay at home growing turnips or something.)