D&D 5E Reasons Why My Interest in 5e is Waning

[Lwaxy]

That's not low-magic, though, is it? That's just a question of power levels.


So would you say that until 5e, magic shops were one of the defining features of the worlds you are referring to?

Yes, we have come to call it "low magic" because someone in the group started to call it that.

And yes, Greyhawk, FR, Eberron, even KoK and a lot of the homebrew settings are defined that way. It is unthinkable for me to play in one of those worlds without all the magic items involved. It's worse for the players in my 2 main groups.

If I define a new setting or use one of those where magic items were never plenty (I made several of them before) it's not an issue, but if that's not where my current groups want to play, then 5e is out.

 

[dmccoy1693]

If it comes down to one issue, it's lack of communication from WotC.

I was at Dreamation last month and someone put it like this: We just don't know if Wizards will stick with anything long term anymore. First they go with D&D 4e and they drop that. Then comes Essentials, announcing 10+ books for it, and they drop it. Then they start Dungeon Command, and they drop it. They announce they're going to do PDFs for everything and they dropped it when 5e was launched (yes, they are still bringing out old PDFs, but waiting more than 6 months for a legal PDF of the PHB is simply not acceptable).

The question then becomes, sure Wizards wants 5e to stick around for a long time, but will that be true next year? Will upper management only see modest sales because the company only released 2 or 3 books all of 2015 and decide to license the name to video game manufacturers and forget this whole "RPG mess." We simply don't know.

 

[collin]

I was at Dreamation last month and someone put it like this: We just don't know if Wizards will stick with anything long term anymore. First they go with D&D 4e and they drop that. Then comes Essentials, announcing 10+ books for it, and they drop it. Then they start Dungeon Command, and they drop it. They announce they're going to do PDFs for everything and they dropped it when 5e was launched (yes, they are still bringing out old PDFs, but waiting more than 6 months for a legal PDF of the PHB is simply not acceptable).

The question then becomes, sure Wizards wants 5e to stick around for a long time, but will that be true next year? Will upper management only see modest sales because the company only released 2 or 3 books all of 2015 and decide to license the name to video game manufacturers and forget this whole "RPG mess." We simply don't know.

Part of what you are referring to is built-in obsolescence. By that I mean WotC is going to purposely release a new or highly revised version of the game every few years. That is what helps to generate sales, i.e. $$. Also, they might actually build in things that need to be 'fixed' in order to justify coming out with updates, errata, and even revised versions in order to ... once again, sell more goods. It's part of the business model to which they have attached themselves.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Part of what you are referring to is built-in obsolescence. By that I mean WotC is going to purposely release a new or highly revised version of the game every few years. That is what helps to generate sales, i.e. $$. Also, they might actually build in things that need to be 'fixed' in order to justify coming out with updates, errata, and even revised versions in order to ... once again, sell more goods. It's part of the business model to which they have attached themselves.

That can work, but it can also drive customers away over time depending. GW uses the model with Warhammer and 40k and their financials have not been doing that well as players leave due to prices and their stuff being made obsolete in the new rule set. Of course a tabletop wargame with a lot of tourney play is a bit of a different beast.

 

[Kramodlog]

It works for Magic: the Gathering. There are many variables how this model can work... or fail.

Maybe they are aiming for "boom and bust" model for D&D. Maybe it will work. Maybe not. Depends how people vote with their wallets. I know I have edition fatigue. In the last 16 years there have been six editions (2e, 3e, 3.5, 4e, PF, 5e). That is a lot of core books to buy, digest, teach and master. Maybe core book fatigue is more accurate.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Magic is another game that is driven by a lot of tourney play correct? Never got into CCG but it seems that they are always having tournaments at game shops around here.

 

[Kramodlog]

Magic is another game that is driven by a lot of tourney play correct? Never got into CCG but it seems that they are always having tournaments at game shops around here.

From my understanding it is at the core of the business model.

Not sure how you do that with D&D. CCG and battle minis are competitive games. D&D is cooperative. Maybe do teams who do the same delves? See who finish first, managed to acquire certain items and accomplish some goals? Where is the roleplay in that?

 

[Staffan]

I mean, don't make me go get FRA or the big Waterdeep box and play find the magic shops, because there are TONS of them, I can tell you, and the FR definitely doesn't fit with "magic items are virtually never sold".

In the 2e Waterdeep boxed set, there was a single magic item store listed, and that was a wizard guild selling a very small selection of items not particularly useful for adventuring, as well as a selection of scrolls, and only selling them to members. Other than that I couldn't find any magic item shop listed in City of Splendors. In 3e, the sale of magic items across the Realms became more common - OOC because the game supported it, IC because the Red Wizards started moving into places and selling items.

 

[chriton227]

In the 2e Waterdeep boxed set, there was a single magic item store listed, and that was a wizard guild selling a very small selection of items not particularly useful for adventuring, as well as a selection of scrolls, and only selling them to members. Other than that I couldn't find any magic item shop listed in City of Splendors. In 3e, the sale of magic items across the Realms became more common - OOC because the game supported it, IC because the Red Wizards started moving into places and selling items.

I just looked in the 2e City of Greyhawk boxed set, the only "magical item store" listed is the Guild of Wizardry, which is listed with the following information about selling items:

The DM is advised to be very careful about selling magic items. Minor items such as potions of healing and the like, and scrolls of spells of level 1-3, are fairly readily available. Permanent items are rarely sold, almost always being retained for use in bartering for items the Guild of Wizardry wants for itself.

It also notes that GMs should set the prices in accordance with other prices in their campaign and that the XP values for items are not prices, just indications of relative values. The PC's items are considered to be valued at 75% of the standard price (85% for guild members), and if the party wants to buy items outright instead of bartering other magic items in exchange, the prices are 115% of the standard price (110% for guild members), and elves suffer a 5% penalty on both buying and selling because the mage responsible for the transactions dislikes elves. The Guild also accepts commissions for the creation of custom magic items, but it takes a while and is not cheap.

There are also pretty strong admonitions about using magic within the city, particularly anything that could cause damage (Fireball can result in arson charges), violate the integrity of other persons like ESP or Know Alignment, or spells that can be used for nefarious means like Invisibility. And this is in the central city in the campaign setting, being both one of the largest (if not the largest) population centers and the trade hub for the continent. I think Greyhawk in 3e was a little more free with item purchases, but as you said about 3e FR, I think this was more because the system supported it, not because it was appropriate to the setting.

Now for a setting like Eberron, I can see magical item stores being much more ingrained to the setting, given how magic in general is much more ingrained into day to day life in Eberron.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

In the 2e Waterdeep boxed set, there was a single magic item store listed, and that was a wizard guild selling a very small selection of items not particularly useful for adventuring, as well as a selection of scrolls, and only selling them to members. Other than that I couldn't find any magic item shop listed in City of Splendors. In 3e, the sale of magic items across the Realms became more common - OOC because the game supported it, IC because the Red Wizards started moving into places and selling items.

I'm pretty certain that there's another, non-guild-affiliated one in there too, but it may be another pre-3E version of Waterdeep I'm thinking of. Certainly if you look through the FRA, you will see quite a number of cities have magic item shops.

I just looked in the 2e City of Greyhawk boxed set, the only "magical item store" listed is the Guild of Wizardry, which is listed with the following information about selling items:

Do you mean Greyhawk or Waterdeep here?