D&D 5E Recharge powers

[TheCosmicKid]

I disagree. If you go in knowing that you're only guaranteed to have access to it once, and everything else is bonus--though more likely with some powers than with others--I don't think there's any loss of agency there at all.

Okay. I'm not saying this is the way your mind works, but it's the way a lot of minds work: Emotions reinforce memories and expectations. People remember the time they got to use the ability a bunch of times not just more positively but more vividly than the time they used the ability just once. Even if they understand the math, their emotional expectations become unrealistic, and it starts to feel like their character is underperforming, like the dice are willfully denying them out of spite.

Now, the recharge system works just fine on the DM's side, because it adds variation to the fight and because the DM's not emotionally invested in the monsters' success. But for the PCs -- why put that in the game? What's the upshot?

 

[Tony Vargas]

The only potential problem I see with a rolled recharge power is ... OK, two actually.

One is from past experience with 'Burnout' powers in Hero. Thing is, a Recharge power always works once. So it's never any worse than an 'encounter' power. Encounter powers are more available than 5e short-rest-recharge powers. So there's that. Recharge 6 may seem limited, but it's better than once between short rests.

5e combats don't seem to go all that long, so the ol' law of averages won't be able to work it's magic on recharge powers by assuring that a 2+ recharge power really is significantly better than a 5+. FWIW.


I agree there's no big loss of agency, it's just a different kind of decision. Use it early in the hopes of using it twice, or use it when it seems the best choice, even if that's only once.

 

[The Human Target]

It's an interesting idea I'd be fine with if it was baked into the game by default, but adding it on now seems difficult.

Monsters had recharge in 4e because daily and to a point encounter powers are kind of wasted on a creature that 99% of the time wouldn't last more than one encounter anyway.

So at-wills stayed the same, encounters became recharges, and dailies became encounters in function.

Why didn't players get recharge powers? Probably because its a bit of a clunky extra step to reroll every round for your powers(even encounter powers only.) You add up a lot of them with racial/class/attack/utility.

When a monster recharges, it usually is going to immediately use that power. A player would have to do more bookkeeping.

Or I guess all modern players are lazy whiny punks blah blah blah barf.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Well...

1) In terms of people's emotions/expectations, that's why I would want them to be uncommon powers, or perhaps restricted to a specific class or tightly related set of classes. That way people who dislike the idea can avoid it completely. (That's also why I don't feel it'd be a big issue to add on when it's not baked in.)

2) What it adds is an option between "at-will" and "per short rest." Right now, there's no "per encounter" in 5E, and a lot of people dislike that idea because of the nebulous issue of when an encounter ends. Rolling recharge provides that option. It's also more realistic for some people who dislike limitations on certain non-magical abilities. This is sort of an easy way of determining if the opportunity comes up again.

3) In terms of bookkeeping, no, I figure you would only roll recharge when you want to try to use the power again. If it fails, you do something else, but if it succeeds, you use the power right then. No "rolling just to see."

I get that it wouldn't work for everyone, and I'm not saying they're in any way "wrong." Believe me, I don't want it to become a core/semi-core thing. I just think it'd be a good option to have for those occasional powers/feats/classes where the existing options don't quite fit.

 

[CapnZapp]

I think people are already waiting for their buttons to light up when playing computer games, and that they do not want this in their home games.

Yes, I just compared recharge abilities with cooldown abilities. The idea is similar to what the thread is already discussing; the lack of player agency.

Us humans are simple: we want it NOW. If we can't get it, we at least want it to be gone "forever" (until the next encounter)

Having abilities that become available randomly, or in 29 seconds, interferes with our need to control our own story. In video games, this is more okay, since you are so clearly controlling a character, something that isn't you. In pnp gaming, that gnome wizard or half-orc barbarian? He's me.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I don't get that at all. I'd much rather have a power I can probably only use once/encounter but might get more often, than a power I can for sure only use once/encounter. And I don't feel any loss of agency there at all, because I chose that class or power in the first place, knowing the restrictions.

Obviously some people feel otherwise, and as I said above, that's cool. I'm looking to make this an additional, somewhat isolated mechanic, not something that most classes would have to deal with. But the objections are odd to me.

 

[Azurewraith]

I think it would be fine if it worked with certain hedge powers such as Chanel divinity powers perhaps the BM maneuvers wildshape would be another cool one

 

[Uchawi]

It is hard to make reliable decisions or strategy if things are too random. I did not like for the monsters in 4E, or PCs for that matter. I know it makes recovery of monster abilities simple, but I prefer monsters, NPCs, and PCs to use the same mechanisms.

 

[CapnZapp]

Sure, mouseferatu; just trying to explain why your idea is resisted ☺

 

[ExploderWizard]

I disagree. If you go in knowing that you're only guaranteed to have access to it once, and everything else is bonus--though more likely with some powers than with others--I don't think there's any loss of agency there at all.

What is available as a bonus soon comes to be an expectation. It happens with everything. Ability scores range from 3-18? Having an 18 is an expectation. A +5 sword exists on the magic item tables? I need a +5 sword.

Remember AD&D? Do you know what the odds are of actually rolling an 18/00 STR? Simply by virtue of of such a score existing, a fighter character having to have it (or something close) soon followed.

Recharge powers would be the same. If there is a chance of getting them back every time there will be a push to do so. Eventually someone will complain that 1 in 6 or 2 in 6 isn't fair and it should be 50/50. Then will come arguments that there should be a feat or widget to buy that increases the chances or that the odds should improve with level.

Something new and cool but random is always the first step to power inflation.