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D&D 5E Reconciling the different Magic the Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons Cosmologies

cbwjm

Hero
I am not an expert on the planes of Magic, but my understanding is that individual M:tG worlds can have their own local cosmologies with subplanes (Theros being an example I think). Assuming that I have not go the WEOTS, it makes more sense to me that the the Great Wheel be another such local cosmology within the greater whole rather than the other way around. With TGW being a plane in the Magic sense, and its various components the subplanes.

Also, if there anyone is interested in the Wall of the Faithless, there is a lively debate going on about it on RPGnet right now....

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glass.
There's always a lively debate about it somewhere.
 

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Dire Bare

Legend
I know folks get geeky about this sort of thing . . . .

But I don't see a need to reconcile the Magic cosmology with the D&D cosmology, even with the two games "crossing the streams" over the past few years.

The cosmologies are different, but similar enough that if you squint . . . . they really aren't all that different. It's the particulars, the small details, where they differ the most . . . and the details are just unimportant to me these days.

When I was younger, it was important for me to figure out how all of the D&D settings fit into the "Great Wheel", despite the tortured explanations of how that worked for some of them (Dark Sun!). Now, I just don't care . . . . .

One of my favorite D&D settings is Planescape, which took the Great Wheel and dialed it to 11. But the Planescape books made the point over and over again that the Great Wheel was just one conception of something that defied easy explanation . . . and now that's my favorite way of looking at the D&D multiverse. And the Magic multiverse, and the DC Comics multiverse . . . .
 

glass

(he, him)
I know folks get geeky about this sort of thing . . . .

But I don't see a need to reconcile the Magic cosmology with the D&D cosmology, even with the two games "crossing the streams" over the past few years.
Did anyone say their was a "need"? (Maybe they did, I have not checked). Talking and thinking about these things is interesting (for me, anyway, and I assume the rest of the people in the thread)!

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glass.
 









The Astral Plane the Great Wheel domains within the Astral Plane are all mental cultural constructs, made out of thoughts, including ethical philosophies.

The Great Wheel literally doesnt exist outside of the minds of humanoids in the Material Plane who think about it.
 



Draknor

First Post
It's a good point. I'd argue that many D&D worlds, like Greyhawk and Toril, have safe routes through the Phlogiston that make planar travel far easier, through safe routes like Spelljammer. But a world like Theros or Ravnica does not. The Phlogiston is a treacherous place to travel without the safe routes, and contains Dark Regions that no one returns from. So my explanation largely assumes that if you aren't Planeswalking, traveling through the Phlogiston will kill you or drive you insane.

So in this view, the Phlogiston = Blind Eternities. I especially like this, as the Blind Eternities is described as being filled with mana and Aether, which could be various forms of the highly flammable energy the Phlogiston is filled with.

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Note, I'm not actually debating you in a "I'm right your wrong!" way, I'm just trying to justify my alternative idea. There really is no official justification for how these connect.
The thing about this, though, is that MTG planes have world boundaries. Space exist in some of them, but one CANNOT leave a plane just by traveling "up". Each plane inevitably has an end. Not a crystal sphere, but a straight up ending. You get to the edge and can go no further. The ONLY way to leave an mtg plane is by planeswalking. All of this makes what op is trying to do nigh impossible. The mtg universe would have to be it's own completely cut off setting, even more so than ebberon. I would say that the crystal sphere for the mtg setting would be entirely found in the blind eterneties. If this would be true, I would say that theres exactly one plane we know of that is near or actually touches the crystal sphere, and thats Equilor.

The thing that I'm more curious about how people would reconcile between the two settings, which is even harder to do, is how magic works in the two multiverses, because that's ENTIRELY different, with pretty much no overlap at all
 

jgsugden

Legend
In the 1980s I took the Great Wheel cosmology, massively simplified it, and have used it (with some evolution that adds to, but did not really change, the basic premise) ever since. I have been so glad I did so ... keeping it simple has proven very helpful. If I find some new and interesting material, I figure out how to add it to the existing framework ... I do not try to rewrite the framework to incorporate it. I shoot for addition, not revision.

Putting that aside - if I were to work for WotC and be tasked with incorporating the M:tG planes into D&D, I would do so by keeping the unincorporated for the most part. They would live outside the Great Wheel, and they'd follow their own rules - but they would be accessible via planeshift and similar magics, as well as having the Great Wheel accessible via Planeswalking Magics. I'd also include rules on why we have rarely seen people travel between the M:tG and D&D Great Wheel cosmologies. If I were writing it, it might be that the connection between the two is the Far Realm, and that you must pass through it to get to the other cosmology, and doing so runs the risk that something will attack you en route, or hop along for the ride and infest wherever you arrive.

I'd write a M:tG PHB that had a few Planeswalker classes (or subclasses of existing classes), as well as basic M:tG cosmology, spells, etc... Essentially the equivalent of the current PHB without PART 2 (Chapters 7 to 9) and expanding the Appendix materials to full chapters, with a half page write up on each of the M:tG Planes that have been established.

Then I'd write books for M:tG planes setting books that included a chapter on the cosmology of that setting. Not for every plane - but for the ones that would be of most interest.
 

Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
The thing about this, though, is that MTG planes have world boundaries. Space exist in some of them, but one CANNOT leave a plane just by traveling "up". Each plane inevitably has an end. Not a crystal sphere, but a straight up ending. You get to the edge and can go no further. The ONLY way to leave an mtg plane is by planeswalking. All of this makes what op is trying to do nigh impossible. The mtg universe would have to be it's own completely cut off setting, even more so than ebberon. I would say that the crystal sphere for the mtg setting would be entirely found in the blind eterneties. If this would be true, I would say that theres exactly one plane we know of that is near or actually touches the crystal sphere, and thats Equilor.

The thing that I'm more curious about how people would reconcile between the two settings, which is even harder to do, is how magic works in the two multiverses, because that's ENTIRELY different, with pretty much no overlap at all

Sorry, I'm not an expert on MTG lore so could be wrong here, but I'm not sure this is accurate.

I believe you can technically reach the edge of an MTG plane by going "up." The planes each end at the Blind Eternities. So someone can try to leave a plane by reaching the edge, which is where they meet the Blind Eternities, which is essentially the end of the road for non-planeswalkers. The Blind Eternities are impassable for non-planeswalkers (except for exceptionally powerful beings like the Eldrazi), but if they exist between the planes, then they should be reachable at the edge of the planes.

Anyway, my idea is that the Blind Eternities is just another word for an area of the Astral Plane, except it is exceptionally dangerous that is so chaotic and perilous that Spelljammers cannot pass through it. Essentially, the planes of MTG exist in the Astral Plane like other worlds on the Material Plane. Each world, both in D&D and MTG, all exist in the Astral Plane, like islands in a vast sea. The difference between the two, is that the worlds of D&D all exist in a calm area of the Astral, making it easier to travel from world to world by Spelljammer or by spells like Planeshift. But the planes of MTG are like islands trapped in a turbelent area of ocean, roiled by constant storms; only very powerful beings like Planeswalkers have the ability to planeswalk to other worlds in this area.

That's my idea essentially, is that the Blind Eternities is a very chaotic and dangerous part of the Astral. It probably doesn't perfectly fit established lore, but does enough for my usages.
 

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