Recreating the Knock-Down feat...

[kreynolds]

Well, here's the version that I've been working on. It's a rough draft, and I haven't worked on it again in quite some time.

Knock-Down [General]
Your mighty blows can knock foes off their feet.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +2, Improved Trip, Str 15+.
Benefit: Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent with a single attack in melee, you may make a trip attack as a free action against the same target. This free trip attack does not trigger a counter trip from your opponent. The opponent you strike must make a successful Strength check (DC equals damage dealt with the attack) or be knocked down into a prone position. Your opponent gains a +4 bonus to their Strength check for every size category larger they are than you.

Use of this feat cannot be combined with Improved Trip to generate an extra attack, and successful use of this feat does not grant an extra attack through the Cleave or Great Cleave feats.

I thought about giving the DC a base of 10 + half damage dealt, or simple a DC of half damage dealt. Any thoughts?

By the way, does anybody know how to insert spaces to simulate paragraph indentation in a post?

 

[Crothian]

I like this better. You might want to add something like +2 bonu8s for each additional leg or tail over the normal 2 legs.

 

[kreynolds]

I like this better. You might want to add something like +2 bonu8s for each additional leg or tail over the normal 2 legs.

First, do you like the save DC as written in the feat, or do you like one of the other suggestions better?

Second, as to the extra leg or tail thing, do you mean add a bonus for the target of the Knock-Down?

 

[Crothian]

First, do you like the save DC as written in the feat, or do you like one of the other suggestions better?

Second, as to the extra leg or tail thing, do you mean add a bonus for the target of the Knock-Down?

I like the DC of damage dealt. And the bonus would be for the target of the knock down.

 

[kreynolds]

I like the DC of damage dealt.

Cool. But, I'm worried that it might be too much. I won't know until I playtest it though.

And the bonus would be for the target of the knock down.

Gotcha. Size differences already give a +4 bonus, so how about a +2 bonus for each extra pair of legs and a +1 bonus for a tail. I'm actually reluctant to go with the bonus for a tail, but if I did, I'd stick with just a +1 bonus.

What do you think?

 

[Crothian]

The DCs might get high. It really depends on how min/maxing damage you are doing. The best use I can think of in the core rules is with a rogues sneak attack. At higher levels that would make this almost automatic. We both know that damage from melee can get obscene if the DM allows it. Therefore I don't see the DC equaling damage being the problem, it would be allowing the abscene damage in the first place that would be the problem.

I just like the idea of tail and extra legs making it more difficult to be tripped. Having the bonuses lower like you suggest is fine.

 

[Jeph]

I've always thought those with an odd number of legs were discriminated against.

How 'bout this, instead of "+2 per pair of extra legs"? +1 for each leg past the second, -2 for those with one peg-leg or primitive prosthetic and 1 real leg, and -4 for 1-legged beasties.

 

[kreynolds]

Wait. I think I have the perfect (or nearly) fix for the knock-down DC. Check out the changes...

Knock-Down [General]
Your mighty blows can knock foes off their feet.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +2, Improved Trip, Str 15+.
Benefit: Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent with a single attack in melee, you may make a trip attack as a free action against the same target. This free trip attack does not trigger a counter trip from your opponent. The opponent you strike must make a successful Strength (or Dexterity) check (DC 10 + damage dealt with the attack; only base weapon damage and Strength bonus damage + Strength based damage; such as Power Attack) or be knocked down into a prone position. Your opponent gains a +4 bonus to their Strength (or Dexterity) check for every size category larger they are than you.

Use of this feat cannot be combined with Improved Trip to generate an extra attack, and successful use of this feat does not grant an extra attack through the Cleave or Great Cleave feats.

Crothian, it was the sneak attack damage you mentioned that caused me to think about this. Sneak attack damage is based upon precision, not brute force, so it really shouldn't be a factor in a brute-force knock-down effect. That's what Paralytic Strike, etc, are for.

So, with this recent change, only the base damage of the weapon and your Strength bonus damage set the DC for the knock-down. For example, say you hit with a greatsword for 2d6+6(Str 18), totaling 12 points of damage (I'm not sure if that's the average, but that's what I'm going for). That would set the knock-down DC to a DC22 (10 + 12 damage).

I think that better illustrates a brute force strike. What do ya' think?

In regards to the legs thing, Jeph made a good point about creatures with odd-numbered legs. Personally, I'm fine with what's in the PH, but the house rule we're cookin' up is pretty cool nonetheless.

Also, I added in the Dexterity check part too. I forgot about that when I changed the wording.

 

[Crothian]

That's a good change. Personally, I'd allow damage from Power Attack to be included. I agree that sneak attack should not.

But what about:

Weapon Specialization?
Enchantment Bonus?

 

[kreynolds]

That's a good change. Personally, I'd allow damage from Power Attack to be included.

Yup. Definately.

Weapon Specialization?

I liken that more to precision than brute force, as you are getting better with the weapon. That's really more a personal preference of mine though.

Enchantment Bonus?

Nah. It just means the weapon hurts more. Also, a +2 whip doesn't give you a +2 enhancement bonus to trip attempts, does it? I can't remember for sure, but I don't believe it does.