Sorrowdusk
First Post
The Red Box.
I just opened it Xmas morning, and I'm still going through it. I -MIGHT- be going to an Xmas party today at a relatives, in which case I DO recall the mention "bring some party games, like monoply or something". If I attend I can expect children, teens, college age cousins and adults anywhere from 30-70 years old.
If I bring The Box along I might have a time convincing people to play a totally "new" game they know -nothing- about as opposed to jumping right into something they are familiar with. That and I am almost tempted to try running 3.x because I basically have come to know it like the back of my had-but hey, its a starter box and it expects NEW players as well as NEW DMs. Nonethless, before I run it the first time (today, or some day in the future) I will give it as thorough a look over as I can-albeit it might be more "true" if I just open the thing and see how fast and easily I can run it with Zero prior prep or read through, but I'm already looking through it and reading what others have said about it. In any case, many (or even all) of those that see it, may never play D&D or any RPG again, but maybe some people may take a greater interest, or KNOW they want more just like I did, the first evening I ever played.
I am a slight miffed that there's Errata to deal with, albeit I can just pencil it in, but I do wish there was an Official Errata sheet you could just print out. I knew from the outset it didnt have mini's, the tokens are very nice but I DO like minis-had Red Box minis, that would be reason enough for me to buy it alone-but I'll say more on that in a bit. Looking at chargen, I think its a good method-albeit including seperate booklets os multiple players could have at it at once would have been nice. I think I may record some of the race/class values on a sheet of my own so if its absolutley necessary I can speed things along. I havent DMd THAT much, but I am familiar with DM 'fudge' or Fiat, and after hearing from one poster on how he felt PCs didnt advance as much as monsters did, and how his party was slaughtered duing the "Purification" segment, I'll take note and wont be afraid to knock a lil HPs off of mobs if they're too tough. I do wish they had equipment lists, if only to show the variety in gear and put people in the mindset- although as an introductory material, I dont think I would have missed it if I were as new as its target audience-albeit when I first ran 3.X Starter for some friends, having seen/played Diablo and the like they had questions about such, and I had the handy dandy PHB and the SRD.
I know some people had different expectations of The "New" Red Box. People have mentioned playing Red Box to death, wanting to have full rules such that they could run infinite 1 -3 campaigns out of it like "the old days". I definitely agree with some people that the infinite replayability of tabletop RPGs is something that makes them very different from WoW or computer games as is the "you can do anything-ablity" of it. I have read some forum posters who mentioned playing Moldvay for 3 years, because they just didnt have the money before moving onto AD&D with "8th grade graduation money".
People disagree about what should be in a starter product. I at least (in my mind) would compare it with TCGs-( maybe thats the wrong way to look at it but) thats the only real "starter" anything I am familiar with. When I buy a starter product (usually a Deck or a set of 2) I expect to learn some of the basic rules of the game and how things work. Some things can be overwhelming for newbies, some things can be overwhelming for people just new to the "concept". My father for example never "got" TCGs or CCGs, he liked games that were "simple" like bidwisk, rummy, or basically any "regular" card game. The biggest thing for him was that he thought the "rules" were "changing" all the time because every card could do something different. At several FLGs though, I have seen people in their 30's and 40's and even some 'old timers' that could be 60 who were either old wargamers or people who just got into magic or whatnot because they had someone younger in their family.
But I've digressed-ANYWAY with a "starter deck" or product in that kind of game, what would I do once I got it? I wouldnt play with the starter for months or years. Provided I had an incentive to play (basically other people to play with, be it friends, or a FLG in easy reach) I would go right out and buy boosters/expansions-in D&D 4e's case, I suppose the rest of the Essentials line and other products. NOW with a starter deck, I would gradually customize it, replaceing basically everything in it in the process of building my own deck. But once I knew how to play, I would STILL buy more starters, either for something availiable ONLY in them, for ease of getting something in them (basically cannabalizing them), OR using as a base to build another type of deck.
I think this is certainly one area Red Box could improve, by having something that people already in the know, and already experienced can take away from it and can carry over to the full game as a newbie. Sort of like how that starter deck might have some staples or a few things that will end up in other decks. The Tokens and what not count as some of that, as will the dice-but most if it? I dont think so.
Let me talk about how I got into the game. It was in early 07 of my freshman year away from home, that I found my first group. Now realize-I'd ALWAYS wanted to play this game, in my imagination at the time it was a beer and popcorn affair enjoyed by college age men and maybe some old timers from "back in the day". I wasnt new to roleplaying though, because I had been doing PbP freeform for years. The group I was with, was save one, entirely seniors who would be graduating that year, some of them were quite beardy but there were 2 women in our group that blew one sterotype away right there. In any case, we didnt start with basic, but rather I was joining a new 3.5 campaign. Now, was my mind blown by the options? I'll tell you I definitely could have built a better first character, but I already knew right away I wanted a mage and picked a Sorceror and I figured rules as I went along and picked spells based on what I thought was cool. We didnt start at first level either as my first DM preffered to start at 5th at the lowest, because it was at that time that he thought PCs were less squishy and had enough options to really differentiate the classes. Later on-when I WOULD start at first level, I discovered from personal experience that I agreed with him and each time was quickly glad to be out of those early levels, maybe my opinion is just influenced so much by first experience. Over the course of the campaign which lasted the schoolyear, I died four times and had three characters (My Sorc got raised once) and I got what I thought was a good sense of the game.
I really enjoyed the campaign. Since that group I've tried a bunch of other games-including Savage Worlds, Call of Cthulhu, Vampire and Mage (LARP), a Homebre LARP. I've moved back home, and am attending Community College now, and I miss campus life. Since there arent many people around, I've become involved in Shadowrun 4e, and some 3e/Pathfinder games on IRC.
Now, that was playing with a full group of experienced people, and most importantly, an experienced DM to run the game. I DID buy 'basic' for 3.X -but why? Well firstly minis attracted me, as did dice (I owned none), -and- it came with a softcover of PHBI (I owned no books). All this came for around 30$ which was the same price as if I had bought a hardcover. NOW, if I were starting TODAY just the same way, would I have bought the new Redbox? Perchance to show some people back home (as I did with Basic 3.X with my friend and his bro) YES. But just for myself? Probably not since I was already in a "full game" experience. However, if you didnt have anyone experienced to DM, and were all on your lonesome, I wouldnt see Red Box as a bad buy at all.
If you were comming from NOTHING, it might be a way to test your interest and that of people you know with minimal investment. I mean, compare it to what you'd have to pay if you just started with the full game, full investment from scratch? Unlike some others, I certainly dont see full ruleset as saying "HAHA you could have just bought this in the first place!" unless of course, you KNEW you would buy it in the first place-which you couldnt. I would say though that if you're a veteran player, you probably wont find much in it for you, and that if you already own the necessities of running a game, you could try introducing some new people by running a one-shot of your own or a very short campaign and letting people see how they like it. I know people have brought up how the 'infinite' replayablity aspect isnt in Red Box, but even with something more akin the Modlvay or Metzner, in my mind that doesnt become apparent unless you play it A LOT. It would certainly take time, and for me at least I didnt (well, wouldnt have) needed that much out of a starter because I already knew enough about RPG to "get" that before I started-albeit I dont know (yet) how well the NRB conveys that, but when I do run it I certainly will stress that as a strongpoint of TRPGs. If I had played Metzner or Moldvay back in the day for that long, I might have expected to have "moved on" to higher level play or other products (but again, maybe thats just a mentality I developed).
I just opened it Xmas morning, and I'm still going through it. I -MIGHT- be going to an Xmas party today at a relatives, in which case I DO recall the mention "bring some party games, like monoply or something". If I attend I can expect children, teens, college age cousins and adults anywhere from 30-70 years old.
If I bring The Box along I might have a time convincing people to play a totally "new" game they know -nothing- about as opposed to jumping right into something they are familiar with. That and I am almost tempted to try running 3.x because I basically have come to know it like the back of my had-but hey, its a starter box and it expects NEW players as well as NEW DMs. Nonethless, before I run it the first time (today, or some day in the future) I will give it as thorough a look over as I can-albeit it might be more "true" if I just open the thing and see how fast and easily I can run it with Zero prior prep or read through, but I'm already looking through it and reading what others have said about it. In any case, many (or even all) of those that see it, may never play D&D or any RPG again, but maybe some people may take a greater interest, or KNOW they want more just like I did, the first evening I ever played.
I am a slight miffed that there's Errata to deal with, albeit I can just pencil it in, but I do wish there was an Official Errata sheet you could just print out. I knew from the outset it didnt have mini's, the tokens are very nice but I DO like minis-had Red Box minis, that would be reason enough for me to buy it alone-but I'll say more on that in a bit. Looking at chargen, I think its a good method-albeit including seperate booklets os multiple players could have at it at once would have been nice. I think I may record some of the race/class values on a sheet of my own so if its absolutley necessary I can speed things along. I havent DMd THAT much, but I am familiar with DM 'fudge' or Fiat, and after hearing from one poster on how he felt PCs didnt advance as much as monsters did, and how his party was slaughtered duing the "Purification" segment, I'll take note and wont be afraid to knock a lil HPs off of mobs if they're too tough. I do wish they had equipment lists, if only to show the variety in gear and put people in the mindset- although as an introductory material, I dont think I would have missed it if I were as new as its target audience-albeit when I first ran 3.X Starter for some friends, having seen/played Diablo and the like they had questions about such, and I had the handy dandy PHB and the SRD.
I know some people had different expectations of The "New" Red Box. People have mentioned playing Red Box to death, wanting to have full rules such that they could run infinite 1 -3 campaigns out of it like "the old days". I definitely agree with some people that the infinite replayability of tabletop RPGs is something that makes them very different from WoW or computer games as is the "you can do anything-ablity" of it. I have read some forum posters who mentioned playing Moldvay for 3 years, because they just didnt have the money before moving onto AD&D with "8th grade graduation money".
People disagree about what should be in a starter product. I at least (in my mind) would compare it with TCGs-( maybe thats the wrong way to look at it but) thats the only real "starter" anything I am familiar with. When I buy a starter product (usually a Deck or a set of 2) I expect to learn some of the basic rules of the game and how things work. Some things can be overwhelming for newbies, some things can be overwhelming for people just new to the "concept". My father for example never "got" TCGs or CCGs, he liked games that were "simple" like bidwisk, rummy, or basically any "regular" card game. The biggest thing for him was that he thought the "rules" were "changing" all the time because every card could do something different. At several FLGs though, I have seen people in their 30's and 40's and even some 'old timers' that could be 60 who were either old wargamers or people who just got into magic or whatnot because they had someone younger in their family.
But I've digressed-ANYWAY with a "starter deck" or product in that kind of game, what would I do once I got it? I wouldnt play with the starter for months or years. Provided I had an incentive to play (basically other people to play with, be it friends, or a FLG in easy reach) I would go right out and buy boosters/expansions-in D&D 4e's case, I suppose the rest of the Essentials line and other products. NOW with a starter deck, I would gradually customize it, replaceing basically everything in it in the process of building my own deck. But once I knew how to play, I would STILL buy more starters, either for something availiable ONLY in them, for ease of getting something in them (basically cannabalizing them), OR using as a base to build another type of deck.
I think this is certainly one area Red Box could improve, by having something that people already in the know, and already experienced can take away from it and can carry over to the full game as a newbie. Sort of like how that starter deck might have some staples or a few things that will end up in other decks. The Tokens and what not count as some of that, as will the dice-but most if it? I dont think so.
Let me talk about how I got into the game. It was in early 07 of my freshman year away from home, that I found my first group. Now realize-I'd ALWAYS wanted to play this game, in my imagination at the time it was a beer and popcorn affair enjoyed by college age men and maybe some old timers from "back in the day". I wasnt new to roleplaying though, because I had been doing PbP freeform for years. The group I was with, was save one, entirely seniors who would be graduating that year, some of them were quite beardy but there were 2 women in our group that blew one sterotype away right there. In any case, we didnt start with basic, but rather I was joining a new 3.5 campaign. Now, was my mind blown by the options? I'll tell you I definitely could have built a better first character, but I already knew right away I wanted a mage and picked a Sorceror and I figured rules as I went along and picked spells based on what I thought was cool. We didnt start at first level either as my first DM preffered to start at 5th at the lowest, because it was at that time that he thought PCs were less squishy and had enough options to really differentiate the classes. Later on-when I WOULD start at first level, I discovered from personal experience that I agreed with him and each time was quickly glad to be out of those early levels, maybe my opinion is just influenced so much by first experience. Over the course of the campaign which lasted the schoolyear, I died four times and had three characters (My Sorc got raised once) and I got what I thought was a good sense of the game.
I really enjoyed the campaign. Since that group I've tried a bunch of other games-including Savage Worlds, Call of Cthulhu, Vampire and Mage (LARP), a Homebre LARP. I've moved back home, and am attending Community College now, and I miss campus life. Since there arent many people around, I've become involved in Shadowrun 4e, and some 3e/Pathfinder games on IRC.
Now, that was playing with a full group of experienced people, and most importantly, an experienced DM to run the game. I DID buy 'basic' for 3.X -but why? Well firstly minis attracted me, as did dice (I owned none), -and- it came with a softcover of PHBI (I owned no books). All this came for around 30$ which was the same price as if I had bought a hardcover. NOW, if I were starting TODAY just the same way, would I have bought the new Redbox? Perchance to show some people back home (as I did with Basic 3.X with my friend and his bro) YES. But just for myself? Probably not since I was already in a "full game" experience. However, if you didnt have anyone experienced to DM, and were all on your lonesome, I wouldnt see Red Box as a bad buy at all.
If you were comming from NOTHING, it might be a way to test your interest and that of people you know with minimal investment. I mean, compare it to what you'd have to pay if you just started with the full game, full investment from scratch? Unlike some others, I certainly dont see full ruleset as saying "HAHA you could have just bought this in the first place!" unless of course, you KNEW you would buy it in the first place-which you couldnt. I would say though that if you're a veteran player, you probably wont find much in it for you, and that if you already own the necessities of running a game, you could try introducing some new people by running a one-shot of your own or a very short campaign and letting people see how they like it. I know people have brought up how the 'infinite' replayablity aspect isnt in Red Box, but even with something more akin the Modlvay or Metzner, in my mind that doesnt become apparent unless you play it A LOT. It would certainly take time, and for me at least I didnt (well, wouldnt have) needed that much out of a starter because I already knew enough about RPG to "get" that before I started-albeit I dont know (yet) how well the NRB conveys that, but when I do run it I certainly will stress that as a strongpoint of TRPGs. If I had played Metzner or Moldvay back in the day for that long, I might have expected to have "moved on" to higher level play or other products (but again, maybe thats just a mentality I developed).
