Red Steel/Savage Coast setting -- thoughts?

[Nisarg]

Have you actually read RS in order make this comparison, or are you basing this claim on the relative quality of other 2e AD&D Mystara products? (This is not a snipe or anything -- I am just curious as to whether this claim is based on the merits of the Savage Coast setting itself, or a more general claim about the pre 2e versus post 2e Mystara products.)

I owned the Red Steel box set. The Savage Coast setting is fantastic, the 2e box set is not.

But I thought that the Princess Ark stuff does not in fact cover the Savage Coast region?
.

The Princess Ark boxed set, and the Princess Ark article series in dragon are not one and the same.

The Box Set does not include the Savage Coast.

The Articles certainly did, as that was where they first appeared, and these articles in Dragon are the ONLY place you will find the info for Savage Coast in its original unaltered form. Note that by "Unaltered" I don't just mean that they're done for OD&D rules, which they are, but also that TSR whitewashed some of the material for the box set, that is far superior in its original version in the Dragon magazine articles.

Nisarg

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I owned the Red Steel box set. The Savage Coast setting is fantastic, the 2e box set is not.

You know, I have all incarnations of the Savage Coast setting and I have been hard pressed to appreciate what is so good about the Princess Ark version over the AD&D Red Steel/Savage Coast version. I can see the qualitative difference between the AD&D Known World products and the BXCM/RC Gazetteers clear as day. But I don't see a qualitative difference worth the wailing I have heard for a decade with the Red Steel material.

For my money, the AD&D2e versions were appreciably better. Frankly, I don't recall anything that appeared in the articles that wasn't covered in the Red Steel boxed set besides the alteration to the Curse and cinnabryl.

The Box Set does not include the Savage Coast.

The Articles certainly did, as that was where they first appeared, and these articles in Dragon are the ONLY place you will find the info for Savage Coast in its original unaltered form. Note that by "Unaltered" I don't just mean that they're done for OD&D rules, which they are, but also that TSR whitewashed some of the material for the box set, that is far superior in its original version in the Dragon magazine articles.

I have not been sold on why the unaltered original articles were superior beyond "they came before the Red Steel boxed set". Frankly, I don't view the alteration of the Curse and usage of cinnabryl to be a whitewashing. Calling it a "whitewash" implied that the original was superior somehow other that it being the "original" version. I bought Red Steel before I ever owned anything else about Mystara or had read the Princess Arc articles. So this was my first impression of the Curse and cinnabryl. It was nifty stuff. Finding out later that Red Steel was based on material that originally appeared in Dragon Magazine, and that the Curse and cinnabryl as written in the articles were altered at the request of TSR management to remove the "drug" connotations of the original material did nothing to lessen my original impression and appreciation. I know it is a personal opinion, but I prefer the Red Steel versions of the Curse and cinnabryl even after knowing the motivations for the change.

That's why I say that Red Steel by itself, divorced of links to Mystara, is a wonderful setting. In fact, I imported the City-States, Savage Coast, Orc's Head Peninsula, and Arm of the Immortals (all as appearing in Red Steel products) into my own homebrew setting just fine. *shrug*


Regards,
Eric Anondson

 

[Akrasia]

That's why I say that Red Steel by itself, divorced of links to Mystara, is a wonderful setting.

Thanks for your feedback, Eric. I have to say that, based on what I have read so far, the Red Steel setting is quite cool -- far better than anything written on Mystera in 2e.

 

[Nisarg]

Thanks for your feedback, Eric. I have to say that, based on what I have read so far, the Red Steel setting is quite cool -- far better than anything written on Mystera in 2e.

Well, in comparison to all the other Mystara 2e products the red steel stuff was probably the best, but that's no great accomplishment. Its like being the most functional psychotic in the hospital lockdown.

Nisarg

 

[diaglo]

Thanks for your feedback, Eric. I have to say that, based on what I have read so far, the Red Steel setting is quite cool -- far better than anything written on Mystera in 2e.

gotta agree. i'm not a big fan of Mystara. my hat of what they did to the Known World knows no limits.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

my hat of what they did to the Known World knows no limits.

That schtick never loses its shine.

This makes me wish I *had* picked up the 2e Karameikos and Red Steel stuff, just
to compare it to all the Basic/RC stuff I own.

 

[Akrasia]

Well, in comparison to all the other Mystara 2e products the red steel stuff was probably the best, but that's no great accomplishment. Its like being the most functional psychotic in the hospital lockdown.

Nisarg

While I hate the 2e version of Mystara, this seems a bit unfair.

I am no expert on Red Steel (hence the original point of the thread). But so far, it looks like a distinctive setting. Indeed, I would not even include it as part of 'Mystara', but rather as its own campaign realm.

Viewed as such, I think it is pretty cool. YMMV of course.

 

[TerraDave]

I really liked those Princess Ark articles. And then they went to AD&D Mystera and messed it all up...

Get the Dragon CD-Rom, whatever else you do. (and that goes for everybody)

 

[Akrasia]

That schtick never loses its shine.

I hate to shock you, FilthyIke, but the fact that you add to your comments does not make them any the less insipid or counterproductive.

This makes me wish I *had* picked up the 2e Karameikos and Red Steel stuff, just
to compare it to all the Basic/RC stuff I own.

Yes whatever. They can be found on ebay for relatively little money. You will no longer be

... Anyway, back to Red Steel ...

As far as I can tell, despite TerraDave's enigmatic remarks to the contrary, the big difference between the OD&D and 2e versions of Red Steel is that in the latter version the 'Red Curse' is not an addictive drug, but a general 'pseudo-radioactive' cloud.

Is this incorrect?

And what exactly makes the earlier version of the Savage Coasts so much better than the Red Steel (2e) version?

(I am not being snarky here, as I have yet to pick any of this up. I am genuinely curious as to whether there is anything substantively different that warrants preferring the Dragon magazine version of the Savage Coast over the Red Steel version.)

 

[TerraDave]

My comments! I am getting hit in two threads here. A number of posters said that only the complete series can be found in the mag. (and I don't actually say anything about Red Steel)

And it was a general endorsement. Peace man, Peace