Reducing Arcane Spell Failure

[Beholder Bob]

True, a fighter wizard has the feats, and hopefully a decent strength. But it also means he is watering down his spell casting with non-caster levels (so a caster in armor is less obscene) and if just 1 LV in this class is spent (to cherry pick the armor feats), he still needs to place a high stat in strength to handle the encumberance and his casting statistic to be a competent wizard. He still suffers move rate limits, max dex limits, penalty to skill rolls & swim, and a maximum spell LV without full round casting = to the max dex. If hit during the full round casting, concentration check or lose spell.

Maximum spell LV cast in armor without full round spent in the casting:

Padded: 8th
Leather: 6th
Studded Leather: 5th
Chain Shirt & Hide: 4th
Scale & Breastplate: 3rd
Chainmail: 2nd
Banded & Full Plate: 1st
Half Plate: 0th

That has got to hurt.

 

[Blacksad]

True, a fighter wizard has the feats, and hopefully a decent strength. But it also means he is watering down his spell casting with non-caster levels (so a caster in armor is less obscene) and if just 1 LV in this class is spent (to cherry pick the armor feats), he still needs to place a high stat in strength to handle the encumberance and his casting statistic to be a competent wizard. He still suffers move rate limits, max dex limits, penalty to skill rolls & swim, and a maximum spell LV without full round casting = to the max dex. If hit during the full round casting, concentration check or lose spell.

yeah, you forgot mithril, masterwork, and other enchantment on armor or SHIELD, which will provide huge AC bonus

Maximum spell LV cast in armor without full round spent in the casting:

Padded: 8th
Leather: 6th
Studded Leather: 5th
Chain Shirt & Hide: 4th
Scale & Breastplate: 3rd
Chainmail: 2nd
Banded & Full Plate: 1st
Half Plate: 0th

That has got to hurt.

uh, where does that come from?

 

[Beholder Bob]

From my initial post on the subject

Even with the mithral option, it should still balance out fine.
Mithral Costs:
Light armor +1 +2,000 gp
Medium armor +2 +5,000 gp
Heavy armor +3 +10,000 gp
Shield +1 +2,000 gp

...and is available now, for a limited time, even if you do not use arcane casting modifier to magic armor, so act now! It reduces the penalty by 10%. It works out great if the armor is going to have an enchantment of +5 or higher, sucks otherwise. Just using an existing game mechanic. If you do not like it, houserule the arcane casting to not overlap with mithral bonus. Personally, I would allow them to mesh just fine.

The only addition I would add is its a full round action to cast spells (with somatic components) in armor if the spell LV cast is higher # then the maximum DEX for that type of armor - hard to wave my arms in wide circles in this splint mail.

This is the source for max spell level cast without a full round action (with somatic spells only - then again, only somatic spells are effected by spell failure, 'nuff said)

I do add some thoughts to this:

A shield would require 1, 2, or 5 LV of Arcane casting (for 5%, 15%, and 50% spell failure) which balances out. To get +2 AC for a shield, I would need 2 ranks in Arcane casting, so a +x shield with a base +2 AC for shield would require a +(x+2) enchantment to negate my casting penalty.

As to masterwork - all enchanted armor is masterwork, so, I just assumed it was understood. This does not lower the DEX max, but does lower the skill penalty.

Finally, Cedric - have I hijacked your thread? If I have, please let me know.

 

[Andion Isurand]

Monte Cook had armor/shield abilities that reduced Arcane Failure in his Eldritch Might books.

+2 ability = reduced Arcane failure by 15%
+4 ability = eliminated all Arcane failure

so, if you like the sound of that...

a +1 ability could reduce it by 5%
and a +3 abilility could reduce the chance by 30% or so...

//////////////////////////////////////

of course.... the first step is getting your armor and sheild made of either Mithral or Glassteel.

 

[Anubis]

Monte Cook had armor/shield abilities that reduced Arcane Failure in his Eldritch Might books.

+2 ability = reduced Arcane failure by 15%
+4 ability = eliminated all Arcane failure

so, if you like the sound of that...

a +1 ability could reduce it by 5%
and a +3 abilility could reduce the chance by 30% or so...

//////////////////////////////////////

of course.... the first step is getting your armor and sheild made of either Mithral or Glassteel.

I'll have to remember not to pay attention to most of what Monte says anymore, because balance obviously is not his forte. +4 for something to take away ASF? I wouldn't put THAT at anything less than a +10 epic ability. WAY too powerful.

 

[Kodam]

+4 for something to take away ASF? I wouldn't put THAT at anything less than a +10 epic ability. WAY too powerful.

It must be a +1 armor to have any specific magic qualities. So we're at 50.000 GP at least (+5). And what do we get? +9 armor AC Bonus with a +1 Fullplate. Arcane Armor gives +4 so the armored mage is +5 AC ahead. With lighter Armor its even less so I leave them out. He had to invest 1 Level in Fighter, Paladin or Cleric to get the proficiency (-1 CL!), has a Max Dex, reduced movement and had to invest something into his Str. But he still has the bracers slot available.
All in all I can't see, where this is overpowered. The "lost" caster level really hurts. He got +5 to his AC but he had to invest a lot and still has some drawbacks. And his AC against touch attacks will be lousy.
If the armored wizard "armored" himself with the +8 Bracers he had spent 14k GPs more and lost 1 Point of AC without all the other ill effects.

If I had to play a Wizard, I'd just go for a high Dex (besides Int and Con, of course). This increases not only my AC, but also my reflex save, my bonus to ranged attacks which are my favorite ones as a Wizard and my initiative. This last one could make my AC completely irrelevant since I can possibly end the fight before it even begins....

 

[Jens]

If I were going to come up with a plus to add to magic armor to reduce the arcane spell failure of the armor by 10%, what would the plus be?

Am I wrong when I think that in 3.5, a reduction of ASF would be a fixed cost to enchanted armor? It seems to me that only defensive powers add a 'plus'. Maybe you're using 3.0?

 

[The Little Raven]

This is what I tried.

Casting arcane spells with somatic components while wearing armor requires a Concentration check in order to maintain the proper focus and precision.

Casting in armor (DC = 10 + spell's level + the armor's armor bonus)
Casting with a shield (DC +1 for buckler or light shield, +2 for heavy shield)

If a caster is struck while casting a spell in armor, he adds the damage from the attack to the DC of casting in the armor.

---

With higher level testing, I determined that the armor check penalty should apply to Concentration checks made while wearing armor, simply because the skill ranks at higher levels make casting spells in heavy armor very easy.

A 17th-level wizard with 20 ranks of Concentration can cast 9th-level spells in full plate (DC 27) on a roll of 7 or higher. Toss in a Skill Focus (Concentration) and it's a 4 or higher, making this very easy to do. Toss in the armor check penalty and things get a little more tricky. Now that 20 ranks and that Skill Focus (+23 bonus) suffer from a -6 penalty while in full plate, which brings it down to a +17, which requires a 10 or higher to hit.

Thoughts?

EDIT: I also added an armor enhancement that has a flat cost of 10,000 gp, and grants a +10 bonus to Concentration checks while wearing the armor.

 

[Anubis]

Re: Re: Reducing Arcane Spell Failure

Am I wrong when I think that in 3.5, a reduction of ASF would be a fixed cost to enchanted armor? It seems to me that only defensive powers add a 'plus'. Maybe you're using 3.0?

Not at all. I think it could work either way, but here's what I said before:

Getting rid of ASF so easily is a bad idea. It's in there for a reason; to help balance spellcasting classes against fighting classes. That's not to say I'm against the idea, however, just the idea of getting rid of it so easily.

I would either make it a flat price modifier (perhaps at ASF reduction squared times 1000) or make it +2 per 5% ASF reduction. Such an ability would be overwhelmingly powerful. Freedom of Movement would be the required spell, of course, and I would set a caster level requirement as well, CL 7 for -5% +2 CL for each 5% thereafter.

Sounds like the best way to balance it.

So ASF -5% would cost 25,000 gp, -10% ASF would be 100,000 gp, and ASF -35% (for Full Plate) would be an epic ability at 1,225,000 gp.