D&D 5E Reducing Power Gaming

[Distracted DM]

To me, ignoring a lot of stuff that matters in real life (like food and shelter) through magic and soft rules in the exploration tier makes the game more superhero.

And of course that's just one example.

Yeah they fixed a lot of the "never worry about food or shelter" spells etc. Good point.

 

[GothmogIV]

I am not a fan of changing core mechanics. I would rather limit the amount of choices available, but there isn't a lot of margin for lowering the complexity just by that (I am assuming that your concern is the amount of abilities a PC can use at a given level). You could at least limit the availability of subclasses and feats (or even spells) so that those that appear to have more complex abilities are avoided, but IMHO WotC never really designed low-complexity subclasses options beyond the Champion.

What I have often done myself to keep the complexity low (for my typical players i.e. casual players and beginners) is to use pre-generated characters, where I had preselected everything to use passive abilities as much as possible, while still having 100% compliant characters. However, players who love character building are not going to be happy about it.

After posting this last week, I polled my players and they all said they enjoyed playing 5e as characters, so this is a me thing. I just need to have a different mindset about the kind of game 5e is: big, bright, flashy and fun. It's an opinionated game, IMHO, compared to others I've played (H/T to @SlyFlourish for that particular way to frame a game's...ethos, I guess). So I can run it with some caveats (gritty realism for healing, no spells that break the game, slow level advancement, not advancement past 5, etc.) It will still be fun.

 

[mamba]

My preference for spell-casting (when the fiction is spell-casting) vs. magic powers that basically do the same thing while technically not counting as spells is why I'm convinced the 5.5 MM won't be an improvement for me over the 5.0 MM.

I don’t like that they reverse on MotM and make everything a spell again, have everything in the stat block instead of making me look up stuff in 5 places, and the abilities seem to be more gamist than ‘real world’ abilities

 

[Retros_x]

I don’t like that they reverse on MotM and make everything a spell again, have everything in the stat block instead of making me look up stuff in 5 places, and the abilities seem to be more gamist than ‘real world’ abilities

Oh they do? Thats a shame, I thought MotM was a step in the right direction in terms of usable statblocks. Seems I have to continue to make my own statblock formats again, I was hoping for once using them straight out of the book.

There definitely are 5e games that feel less superhero. Level Up does that for me. Although I admit you still get a lot of powers, you don't seem to ignore logic in favor of gamist player awesomeness as much.

When I meant 5e, I meant 5e in particular, not derivatives of 5e. Playing Level Up is confirming my advice to not play 5e if you don't like the "superhero" feel of higher levels.

Yes, but how much a game caters to that playstyle, whether it rewards a high level of system mastery or not, will have a significant effect.

I think powergaming is a players attitude. Powergamers will even try to powergame a narrative game. Its just people who like to play efficiently in the system, they won't stop it just because its a different game. They might stop playing that game though, so in a sense - yes you can stop powergaming as a DM, if the powergamers leave your table being frustrated with the game you chose. But I think this was not OPs goal here.

I think instead of trying to change the game mechanics you should have a talk to your players if you are unhappy with their playstyle.

(Or think foryourself if powergaming is actually bad for your game. There seems to be an imaginary dichotomy between powergaming and roleplaying as if they cancel each other out. They don't.)

 

[MichaelSomething]

Just roll 3d6 stats in order. Done!

 

[DarkCrisis]

I get that 5E is the thing but check out Old School Essentials and Shadowdark. Play those.

I took my 5E players to those and they love them.

 

[Bill Zebub]

This is not to start an argument, but to seek advice: I am not thrilled with how quickly characters become powerful in 5e. I am a dude who started with 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd edition, and I find the powers that characters have very quickly in 5e is a bit...vexing. Similarly, they just get too many powers, in my observation. So what are some ways to take some of that out? Remove bonus actions and reactions? No feats? Limit spell choice (like a ranger could only take spells like Animal Friendship)? I'm open to ideas.

My crew plays on Roll20, so it's not hard to futz with the built in 5e character sheet. I'd love some FRIENDLY, POLITE council. I'm not yucking anyone's yum.

Easy. Play Shadowdark.

 

[GothmogIV]

Yeah. Castles&Crusades it is. Thanks, all.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah. Castles&Crusades it is. Thanks, all.

I'd probably go with Worlds Without Number.

 

[GothmogIV]

I'm sure it's a good game, but I need to have VTT support. C&C is releasing a big upgrade on Foundry, and there is a workable compendium on Roll20. Plus: I just like Troll Lords. Good dudes.