Reflex saves & movement?

[Errant]

Reflex Save: A type of saving throw, related to a characters ability to withstand damage thanks to his agility and quick reactions.

A Reflex save will also allow you to avoid falling into traps, or avoid being trapped or otehrwise affected by spells such as Wall of Ice and Grease.

But does a successful Reflex save involve movement?

Where do I finish up standing when I successfully save against the Wall of Ice Hemisphere the enemy mage created around the spot I moved to in my last action?

Does a successful save vs Lighting Bolt mean I moved out of the Bolt's path? Does a save vs Fireball mean I threw myself flat so I'm now prone?

Are there any rules covering this sort of thing?

How do others handle this issue?

 

[Darklone]

Grrr

In a group where I play: DM ruled I cannot save against things if I cannot get out of the way... strange.

In my groups: Use 5ft steps. and substract them from the movement at the next action.

 

[Artoomis]

The rule is you "somehow" dodged out of the way - the "somehow" is intentially left vague and has no game effect.

The rule mechanic is the same for Reflex, Fortitude and Will saving throws. You should feel free to add all kinds of drama to this, but no real game rule effect is appropriate except as a house rule.

 

[mmu1]

Simplest way of doing it that's worked well in every game I've been in is to ignore the issue It's a part of the rules and balanced as is, so changes are really only necessary if the logical inconsistency bothers you.

Making changes is tricky, for a couple of reasons.

A) As someone mentioned on some other thread, people might try to fireball the rogue to move him an extra 20' in an emergency and try other silly things like that.

B) The whole "Do you have space to move out of the way?" issue. I have heard of DM's handling it this way, and it's ridiculous, because it completely screws over Rogues and Monks, who rely on Evasion. It's just one of those things like being able to swing a greataxe in a 5' corridor, or a halfling fighter with a dagger being a legitimate threat to a 30' giant in plate armor, being able to fight an earth elemental with a rapier, and so on, that don't make sense but are best left as is for the sake of the balance and enjoyment of a fantasy game.

 

[Number47]

I agree with the above posters, with an exception. If the effect is something lasting and tangible, like a wall, then the character making the save is moved out of the area. For fireballs or lightning bolts, however, you manage to avoid the effects while staying in your own square.

 

[Crothian]

According to the rules, you don't move at all. You stay in the exact same space.

However, allowing a free 5 ft step makes sense in this case. I've had some specific circumstances where the person who made it was moved out of the area because it made the most sense at the time.

 

[Artoomis]

I agree with the above posters, with an exception. If the effect is something lasting and tangible, like a wall, then the character making the save is moved out of the area. For fireballs or lightning bolts, however, you manage to avoid the effects while staying in your own square.

Quite right. That's usually written into the spell description, but not always.

 

[Number47]

I think the pertinent spell to read is Blade Barrier. It says that if you make your save, you don't take damage as long as you leave the area by the shortest means. I have taken that to mean that you are moved as a result of the spell. Are you saying that it actually cost the character movement? The wall spells read somewhat similar, but not quite as precisely. What other types of spells would be included in the "move out of the way" list?

 

[D'karr]

Movement

Why does it have to involve movement?

Maybe the rogue and the monk just are adept at cocooning their bodies into a fetal position when a blast effect like fireball goes off in close proximity to them. This allows them to deflect the balst better.

The rules are left vague for a reason. Assigning game mechanics to the effect complicates things and cannot be used consistently 100% of the time.

 

[Number47]

We aren't talking about fireball. We all agree about things like fireball. We are talking about things like Wall of Ice. That reflex save has to somehow get you on the other side of the ice or there is no point in making a save. If the monk curls up into a ball in the middle of the ice hemisphere, he has actually just failed his save!