D&D 3E/3.5 Refocus disappeared in 3.5?

[werk]

Would it work to put a strip of tape on each card, and write the numbers in erasable marker?

-Hyp.

I have players write their init on the map in front of them (everyone has their own marker) and if they delay, they wipe it off and write down whenever they want to pick up again. So there is no "who has what count" because they are all on display.

It works for us, and I shudder to think about adding and managing cards, counters, or any more props than we already use...it's already pretty chaotic when a player loses something. I just try to use what we are already using, like the mat.

 

[Infiniti2000]

tangent

The entire concept of "aware versus unaware" is very strange and not well defined in the DMG.

You ain't just whistling Dixie, bub!

I shudder to think about adding and managing cards...

Unless you've tried it, don't knock it. Stat cards have so greatly simplified things for me, I can't imagine going back. The only thing that would make it better would be a laptop and some custom software but I don't personally like that idea (I can explain if anyone's interested).

As for the "mat", if you use a gridded battlefield I strongly encourage using Tact-Tiles. They are quite simply awesome. The only improvement would be a projected battlefield from an upside-down projector hung from the ceiling, but not everyone has the resources or capability to implement that. I've heard of people making their own tact-tiles, very cheaply, so I don't even think cost is an issue.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

As long as we've drifted to the topic of tools to actually track initiative smoothly, I'll bring up another method.

Post-It bookmarks are your friend. Easier to set up than a magnet board, easier to change than a dry-erase tally, less cumbersome (for my money) than a stack of cards. Put the name of each party member on one, and have some different-colored ones with generic names like "Foe A" or "NPC 1." Stick them to a printed grid with a box on it for all of the initiative values that are likely to occur. When someone delays or readies an action, just rotate their bookmark to make a note of that fact, and relocate it when their new initiative value is determined. This initiative sheet fits nicely in a folder with the DM's materials.

 

[AuraSeer]

No, the monster's initiative is not rolled until he's aware of combat.

Why? What would that change? The monster doesn't get a combat action until he actually notices the encounter, but there's no reason you can't roll the die early. Your result will be exactly the same.

When setting up big encounters, sometimes I record an initiative roll for each NPC at design time, before the game session even starts. This still gives exactly the same results as rolling each time an NPC hears combat, but it speeds up combat because I don't have to stop and roll initiative as often.

It only makes a difference for new creature entering the combat. I agree you don't need initiative counts unless such a thing happens. But, as Hyp has shown, a new entrant rolls initiative and if you want to make sure you always go before new entrants you could just choose initiative count 500. Thus, the rogue will always surprise new combatants who might have been unaware of the combat.

And this doesn't strike you as a particularly silly example of metagaming? It makes no in-game sense at all, and worse, it gives more speed advantage to the slowest characters.

Consider a low-Dex fighter who ended up with a negative initiative total. Since he goes last in round 1 anyway, he doesn't lose anything if he Delays until the beginning of round 2. Using your rule, he could declare that his new initiative total is ninety million, meaning he would automatically surprise anyone else who shows up. When the world's fastest ninja happens upon the fight with his initiative roll of 40, the hapless slow guy will get the drop on him.

Meanwhile, the other PC is a speedy high-Dex rogue who rolled a 28 init. He should be way faster than his buddy the fighter, yet for some reason he can't react as quickly to the ninja's entry. If he wanted to take advantage of the same rules loophole to go "earlier", he would have to Delay for an entire round, effectively giving up all his actions in round 1.

I don't think this is the intended meaning of that rule.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Why? What would that change? The monster doesn't get a combat action until he actually notices the encounter, but there's no reason you can't roll the die early. Your result will be exactly the same.

When setting up big encounters, sometimes I record an initiative roll for each NPC at design time, before the game session even starts. This still gives exactly the same results as rolling each time an NPC hears combat, but it speeds up combat because I don't have to stop and roll initiative as often.

You seem to be defending a technique you are using to makes things efficient. That's fine and I have no problem with that. You're right that it doesn't matter when the initiative was actually rolled. I preroll them as much as possible, too. That's completely irrelevant, though.

And this doesn't strike you as a particularly silly example of metagaming? It makes no in-game sense at all, and worse, it gives more speed advantage to the slowest characters.
(examples snipped)
I don't think this is the intended meaning of that rule.

Of course it strikes me as metagaming. I said the same thing long ago! That's why I got rid of that part of the rule.

Exactly what are you arguing because you seem to be agreeing with me and arguing with me at the same time? I think you may be quoting me, but responding to someone else.

 

[Nail]

Stat cards have so greatly simplified things for me, I can't imagine going back.

Me too.

For a short time, I had my players track their own init by writing it on the battle mat. It just got to be too slow and repetitive: "Okay, who's next?"

With stat cards (I prefer 8.5x11" sheets; more room, and I can print the monster's picture on it), you sort the cards once, during the initiative set up, then you are done. As DM, I say: "Okay, PC #1, your turn!" For the player that'll be next, I add:"....PC #2, you're next!" ...so that people can anticipate and be ready when their turn comes up.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I prefer 8.5x11" sheets; more room, and I can print the monster's picture on it

More room is nice, but I like them smaller so I can hold them up and keep one eye on the card and the other on the players. When you look away from your audience, people tend to lose focus more quickly. This way, as I call out someone's name for action, I'm already looking at that person. I just feel it creates a livelier interaction.

 

[Nail]

More room is nice, but I like them smaller so I can hold them up and keep one eye on the card and the other on the players.

Uhm....I can do that with either size.

Moreover, the extra room is simply required for higher level gaming. Once you get past CR 12, each monster has more options. And to reduce "look it up" time, I note the effects of each (Sp).

For example: Show me the 3x5 card for a Half-fiend Wiz 7/LM 9. It's bound to be a mess with that 3x5 inch size. You'd have to use the back of the card, for one, which means you'd be flipping back and forth. Yuck.

 

[Nail]

Back on topic: I must admit some house-rule-age in my games. New combatants (that I know will come in later) are added into the stack when the initiative phase is rolled.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Moreover, the extra room is simply required for higher level gaming. Once you get past CR 12, each monster has more options. And to reduce "look it up" time, I note the effects of each (Sp).

Oh, well, actually I print mine on cardstock and some are bigger than others, but none are a full sheet and all are about 3in. wide.