Reincarnation

[svwilson]

If you reincarnate from some normal race (say, you're a 9th-level elf) to a 9th-level human, I know that from now on you get a bonus skill point per level. But do you get, retroactively, 9 bonus skill points (plus 4 at first level) as if you had always been a human?

Similarly, do you get the human's bonus feat?



-- Shawn

 

[Starglim]

You definitely wouldn't get retrospective skills.

The human bonus feat is an interesting question. I don't think you would get it, since as a necessary obverse, a human reincarnated as any other race would have to lose one feat, and that would be weird and irritating as well as contrary to the spell description. You don't gain the automatic languages of the new form so it is already clear that "all abilities" of the new form has some exceptions.

You retain the class abilities, skill ranks and feats that you had before. It's reasonable to extend that to say that you gain no new skill ranks or feats.

 

[Rystil Arden]

You definitely wouldn't get retrospective skills.

The human bonus feat is an interesting question. I don't think you would get it, since as a necessary obverse, a human reincarnated as any other race would have to lose one feat, and that would be weird and irritating as well as contrary to the spell description. You don't gain the automatic languages of the new form so it is already clear that "all abilities" of the new form has some exceptions.

You retain the class abilities, skill ranks and feats that you had before. It's reasonable to extend that to say that you gain no new skill ranks or feats.

If you don't lose the human bonus feat and skills upon Reincarnation, then why not make an uber-elf or an uber-dwarf, where you begin play as a human and then reincarnate yourself with True Reincarnate until you get the race you really want to play. Congratulations, you've now just purchased a free bonus racial feat and skills with gold.

 

[Starglim]

Congratulations, you've now just purchased a free bonus racial feat and skills with gold.

And levels. There is no True Reincarnation.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Did they not convert it from 3.0 in Complete Divine (I don't know as I didn't purchase that book)? It's still worth a level to get a bonus feat at mid levels, assuming you were OK with any non-human form, since in 3.5 XP rules, you will quickly catch up again.

 

[Scharlata]

[...]Similarly, do you get the human's bonus feat?

Hi!

I'd say: no. For example, if you were reincarnated into a lizardwoman, you wouldn't get the Multiattack feat, in spite of gaining the natural attack forms typical for a lizardwoman.

As a reincarnated character you retain all your previous acquired feats and skill points, but don't get skills and feats from/for the new body.

The elf reincarneted into human, in your case, would lose the Elf's Dex bonus, lose the Elf's Con penalty, retain its elven feats and skills, gain no human feat(s) or skills retroactively. Later, leveling up, she would gain 1 extra (human) skill point per level.

Kind regards

 

[Rystil Arden]

Hi!

I'd say: no. For example, if you were reincarnated into a lizardwoman, you wouldn't get the Multiattack feat, in spite of gaining the natural attack forms typical for a lizardwoman.

As a reincarnated character you retain all your previous acquired feats and skill points, but don't get skills and feats from/for the new body.

The elf reincarneted into human, in your case, would lose the Elf's Dex bonus, lose the Elf's Con penalty, retain its elven feats and skills, gain no human feat(s) or skills retroactively. Later, leveling up, she would gain 1 extra (human) skill point per level.

Kind regards

The lizardwoman example is not a good analogy because the lizardwoman feat of Multiattack is the selection that the Monster Manual picked for the level 1 lizardman feat that every race gets, rather than a racial bonus feat, so you don't gain the Multiattack feat just like you don't gain the Weapon Focus (Dwarven Waraxe) feat for being a dwarf, even though the Monster Manual dwarf has this feat. If the race gained a racial bonus feat, like vampire, then you do indeed gain access to the feat if you ever become a vampire.

The posts above mean that an elf reincarnated into a human is *significantly* weaker than a human reincarnated into an elf.

 

[FireLance]

I personally think that the reincarnation mechanic is poorly executed and prone to result in either dissatisfaction or abuse. It's a cool idea and makes for a unique character with a great backstory, but the rules headaches aren't worth it. If I was the DM, I would find some way of working a 9th-level cleric with raise dead into the scene rather than allow the spell to be used. But that's just me.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Reincarnation is "fair" as random chart go, but it does cause some rules headaches.

You could indeed start Human, pocket the Feat and some skill points, and hope the dice give you a decent new race to match your class selection. (Kobold Fighter. Oops!) But it is hardly worth losing a level for that benefit.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I don't know...I don't really think the table is so fair as all that using these methods. Let's stack Bob, a human who gets reincarnated as an orc, (both races ECL 1/2) versus Thurg, an orc reincarnated as a human. Bob has a human bonus feat, human bonus skills, no mental penalties, all the orc abilities, and +4 strength. Thurg has -2 to all mental scores and absolutely nothing else, not even Darkvision. And really, only Kobold from that whole list is detrimental, so you have a 96% chance to reap rewards from this. The free stat raises are worth the level, since you will quickly catch right back up under the 3.5 XP rules. And if you're not a caster (which this would anger), you might get lucky and wind up replacing the missing level with the fact that your new humanoid form has racial hit die and a +5 natural armour bonus (like lizardfolk).