Release Day Second Edition Amazon Sales Rank

Mistwell

Hero
A more complete snapshot for this moment:

Core book is at #3,096 in Books.
Beastiary is #8,520 in Books.
GM Screen is #14,626 in Books.
Lost Omens World Guide is #14,771 in Books.
Lost Omens Character Guide pre-order is #20,183 in Books.
Pathfinder Adventure: The Fall of Plaguestone (P2) is #28,276 in Books.
Lost Omens and Gods pre-order is #70,523 in Books.
Campaign Setting: Druma Profit and Prophecy is #214,680 in Books
 

darjr

I crit!
Sometimes though it seems steady sellers suffer from Holiday gift buying. Don’t know if holloween counts. But the thing is other things that don’t typically sell as well sell much better and suppress steady sellers rank.
But it does seem early for that.
 

darjr

I crit!
5e level of success is an outlier
And 3000 on Amazon is fantastical good.

Though I also think it isn’t doing as good as PF1 was just before 5e was released. But I dint know where PF1 was early on.
 

Mistwell

Hero
#3000 in all books on Amazon is pretty awesome. Ignoring 5E as an outlier which distorts perception, it's a very successful book.
That depends on what their expectations were prior to release. You appear to be comparing it to all other non-WOTC RPGs to determine if it's doing well, but that's not necessarily an accurate perception either.

If they printed sufficient quantities and hired staff with 5000 rank or worse in mind for this point in the sales trend, then it's awesome. Like the Jordan Peele movie Get Out, which cost $4.5M to make and had low expectations and made just over $250M in box office (which was lower than a Marvel movie that year by vastly exceeding its costs).

If however they printed sufficient quantities and hired staff with 500 rank in mind or better at this point, it's an awful failure. Like the movie Waterworld, which also made just over $250M in Box Office and that deceptively looked good relative to other movies out that year, but cost more than the studio received from box office sales to make it, resulting in failure.

And we just don't know what their expectations were prior to release, and we won't likely ever know (because Paizo has always said, even days before failure of their digital gaming product, that everything was always going fine and exceeding expectations).

The only one thing I can think of which we could figure out is what the sales rank of the books were in the 6 months prior to the announcement there would be a 2e. Because we can be pretty certain their expectations are that 2e needed to sell better than 1e was selling at the tail end of that edition. If it's selling worse than 1e was already selling, then it's bad. I don't think we have that data handy but I strongly suspect it's selling better than 1e was selling, at least for the moment.
 
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gss000

Villager
I'm going to reprint what (someone else) wrote when on Aug 16 the core rulebook was at 11 on Amazon's Best Fantasy Gaming list and the Bestiary was at 23 (see post #106 in this thread for the full text).

"The recent dip may not look great, but I think PF2e is still stabilizing after the initial boom caused by the release and finding its place in the top 100. My guess is it’ll secure a spot somewhere in the top 15 (or maybe even the top 10 or top 5?) and stay there for a few years, if everything goes well. To be honest, the Bestiary is doing a bit worse than I thought it would. Not sure why that is."

Now, the Core is at 32 and the Bestiary dropped off the top 100 altogether yesterday and is at 100 today. As has been stressed before, you can't take the exact number to mean too much, but this is missing their expectations. What is happening with the Bestiary? That can't be good if the second book I'd tell people to buy to play the game is dropping this fast.

Edit: I misattributed a post. My point is weaker because I thought it was coming from an authority. Apologies for any confusion.
 
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Parmandur

Legend
I'm going to reprint what Erik Mona wrote when on Aug 16 the core rulebook was at 11 on Amazon's Best Fantasy Gaming list and the Bestiary was at 23 (see post #106 in this thread for the full text).

"The recent dip may not look great, but I think PF2e is still stabilizing after the initial boom caused by the release and finding its place in the top 100. My guess is it’ll secure a spot somewhere in the top 15 (or maybe even the top 10 or top 5?) and stay there for a few years, if everything goes well. To be honest, the Bestiary is doing a bit worse than I thought it would. Not sure why that is."

Now, the Core is at 32 and the Bestiary dropped off the top 100 altogether yesterday and is at 100 today. As has been stressed before, you can't take the exact number to mean too much, but this is missing their expectations. What is happening with the Bestiary? That can't be good if the second book I'd tell people to buy to play the game is dropping this fast.
My guess is that the Bestiary is the DM book, so it is probably going to consistently sell at 20-25% of the Core.
 

Mistwell

Hero
I'm going to reprint what Erik Mona wrote when on Aug 16 the core rulebook was at 11 on Amazon's Best Fantasy Gaming list and the Bestiary was at 23 (see post #106 in this thread for the full text).

"The recent dip may not look great, but I think PF2e is still stabilizing after the initial boom caused by the release and finding its place in the top 100. My guess is it’ll secure a spot somewhere in the top 15 (or maybe even the top 10 or top 5?) and stay there for a few years, if everything goes well. To be honest, the Bestiary is doing a bit worse than I thought it would. Not sure why that is."
I had not seen this before. Great, something we can point to definitively as their expectations.

So he expected the core book to be top 5-15 on that list once it stabilized, and to stay there for years. It's now down to #42. So that looks pretty damning.

EDIT - Wait, is that post from Erik Mona? It looks like it's not.
 
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dave2008

Legend
I'm going to reprint what Erik Mona wrote when on Aug 16 the core rulebook was at 11 on Amazon's Best Fantasy Gaming list and the Bestiary was at 23 (see post #106 in this thread for the full text).
Look at post #106 again. The bit you quoted was not from Eric Mona.
 

gss000

Villager
My guess is that the Bestiary is the DM book, so it is probably going to consistently sell at 20-25% of the Core.
From my experience, you're right that fewer people will buy a DM book, but not that much. The DMG and monster manual don't have that big of a drop compared to the PBH in the Amazon list either. Are D&D player buying behavior that much different than Pathfinder? I don't think the comparable books are that much different to each other in terms of content to warrant vastly different habits. Happy to be wrong here.
 

Parmandur

Legend
From my experience, you're right that fewer people will buy a DM book, but not that much. The DMG and monster manual don't have that big of a drop compared to the PBH in the Amazon list either. Are D&D player buying behavior that much different than Pathfinder? I don't think the comparable books are that much different to each other in terms of content to warrant vastly different habits. Happy to be wrong here.
Well, 5E has a publishing strategy of natural language rulebooks with lots of fluff oriented towards reading. PF2, less so. I would think PF2 strict players would be significantly less likely to buy a straight DM book that is straight business. Alternatively, if the Bestiary isn't being bought for entertainment, a lot of PF2 DMs might just stick to the SRD for monsters.

Just a hypothesis, the relative cratering of the Bestiary to the core books does remain surprising.
 

Nebulous

Adventurer
The Essentials Kit is GREAT stuff. You can create your own characters, it goes up to level 6 (in the box, you don't have to download something extra) and you have five classes to choose from with several archetypes each.

It SHOULD be doing awesome (or I would hope).
Essentials is great to blend with Phandelver. It adds a huge amount of variety and side quests.
 

Schmoe

Explorer
Completely anecdotal, but...

I just bought the core rulebook and the bestiary from my FLGS, and I asked the owner how it was selling. He said it was moving great, much better than he thought it ever would. He said it was slow at first, but then in one weekend he sold half of his entire stock, and it's been doing great since then.
 

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