Remember when ...

[MatrexsVigil]

Do you remember a time when D&D was a game full of basement geeks giggling about girls in chainmail bikinis? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

Do you remember a time when D&D was a game full of upstart youngins with their feats and skill points? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

-P.C.

 

[CleverNickName]

I agree with the OP...the first one that comes to mind is that old "WotC is only doing this so that they can make more money!" line. Because, you know, they aren't supposed to be a business. They are not allowed to have employees and investors and expenses and whatnot; they are supposed to be writing and publishing quality products for us all, enduring all of our complaints and criticism, purely out of the goodness of their hearts.

[/sarcasm]

Seriously, I groan every time someone complains about WotC wanting to make as much money off of their own product as possible.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Seriously, I groan every time someone complains about WotC wanting to make as much money off of their own product as possible.

Sometimes you have the pro-4E crowd saying that WotC is just doing what's best for "the hobby." Of course WotC is doing no such thing; it is their obligation to do what's best for WotC.

 

[Darkwolf71]

The only one we're not seeing is 'They're going to turn D&D into Magic: The Gathering/Pokemon!'. That's been replaced by 'They're making D&D into a video game!'.

Arguably, with D&D Insider and the Online Gaming Table, they are doing both.

 

[Emirikol]

IT's funny. Back then, we were already playing essentially 3.0 through house rules.

..currently, we're essentially playing 4.0 through house rules...

Transition is simpler when you just see your house rules in hardback

jh

 

[Ranger REG]

It is both funny and sad that all edition transitions have had so many of the same arguments. Some of them are valid reasons for not switching (I have a lot of stuff for edition X, no need to switch to edition X+1; or I'm still having fun with edition X, no need to switch to edition X+1). Some of them don't seem so valid and some sound like paranoid fantasies.

No doubt we will spawn another diaglo.

Although I have to confess, I'm not as excited for 4e this year as I am for 3e around 1999.

 

[Steely Dan]

Actually, if you looked carefully enough, he already was one as early as 1e. Guess where this was written ?

Was it the 1st Ed MM or Deities & Demigods (my all time favourite book)?

 

[Ulrick]

In the 1e Manual of the Planes Asmodeus fell from the Heavens before all of the current dieties were created.

The Dragon #28, Baalzebub overthrew Satan, who in turn was overthrown by Asmodeus.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

I seem to have either a memory problem or just different experiences, but I was at the GenCon 3E announcement that was met with thunderous applause and an overall good feeling (as opposed to confused looks, a handful of claps, and a cricket followed by 3 days of grumbling and head-shaking). Folks on the internet grumbled a little but most agreed many things could be better.

The hate back then, like now, is mostly concentrated on the internet. IIRC, there was a lot of griping and complaining on the Usenet. Now, with Usenet being reduced to a shambling corpse of its former [strike]horror[/strike] glory, the hate resides on forums.

 

[pawsplay]

I believe the OP is trying to draw a comparison between kvetching from 3e to the same for 4e because they wish to imply the complaints are of the same character. That's franky, bunk. 3e was a really nice design, and even those who aren't fans overwhelming agree it was a significant and overall approvement. There are some AD&D and OD&D fans out there, but for the most part, they are fans of that edition, not haters of the new one.

4e is an entirely differenet situation. 3e had a really successful product lifespan. It had a lot of third party support as well. It brought many old D&D players back into the fold. While the various worlds were upset a little bit to make room, the old settings and old stories remained largely intact.

4e is not aimed at long-time 3e players who have fallen from the fold. It's designed to sell to everyone, young, old, currently playing 3e or not. It has a tall order to improve on 3.5, which was not only a good design, but benefits from the evolution from 3.0. It is very unlikely 4e will be as well refined right out of the starting gate. Old setting continuity is being tossed aside without a thought, and FR is being massively altered to remain D&D. All previous D&D novels will in the future be discontinuity. All old campaigns will be discontinuity.

Whether or not you are enthusiastic about 4e, I think it's pretty clear that a lot of 3.5 fans have understandable reasons to be annoyed with the new version, either because they weren't ready to upgrade or they aren't happy with the new direction. While AD&D 2e was languishing when 3e came out, 4e comes on the heels of a thriving 3e.

Oh... and by the way, 4e is being put out for business reasons as much as any other. It is a chance to sell new rulebooks. 3e came out because there just weren't going to be too many new AD&D fans.