Removing Some of the Top-Heavy Elements of Classes

[green slime]

IMHO you are going a bit overboard. However, I like the idea.

In a similar discussion a while back, someone (me?) proposed that each class somehow grant a bonus Feat at 1st level, and that anyone wishing to multi-class must take that feat before picking up the new class. For example, a Rogue who wished to enter Ranger would have to first take Track.

Here's what I remember:

Barbarian: Endurance
Bard: Skill Focus (any Perform)
Cleric: Skill Focus (Kn:Religion)
Druid: Wild Companion (from the WotC web site, counts as Animal Companion)
Fighter: Weapon Focus (any)
Monk: Improved Unarmed Strike
Ranger: Track
Rogue: any one of: Stealthy, Alertness, Deft Hands, Acrobatic, or other +2/+2 deemed appropriate by the DM
Sorcerer: Any of the spell-like ability feats from Complete Arcane
Wizard: Draconic language, Skill Focus (Spellcraft)

Cheers, -- N

I actually require skills, instead, rather than feats, but along similar lines.

 

[Nifft]

I actually require skills, instead, rather than feats, but along similar lines.

For Monk, Bard and Rogue, I could see skills doing a better job.
Cross-class skill buy is painful, though. Do you compensate for that?

Cheers, -- N

 

[green slime]

For Monk, Bard and Rogue, I could see skills doing a better job.
Cross-class skill buy is painful, though. Do you compensate for that?

Cheers, -- N

To some extent: Human Players start at 3rd level, so only have to pay for any additional character classes acquired after that. IMC, Humans also can choose two skills that are "always" class skills.

Actually I was quite taken with your feat ideas; I think I'm going to have to go home and re-evaluate, some kind of amalgamation of our two ideas!

 

[Nifft]

To some extent: Human Players start at 3rd level, so only have to pay for any additional character classes acquired after that. IMC, Humans also can choose two skills that are "always" class skills.

Actually I was quite taken with your feat ideas; I think I'm going to have to go home and re-evaluate, some kind of amalgamation of our two ideas!

Perhaps a choice: for some classes, you must have a certain feat, while for others, you may choose between a certain feat and having N different skills from some list up to at least rank X.

For a Rogue, maybe you need 3 ranks each in Open Locks, Disable Device, Sleight of Hand and Search.

For a Bard, maybe you need 3 ranks each in Kn(History), Bluff, Sense Motive and Perform(any).

Anyway -- please do post what you come up with! -- N

 

[green slime]

My Original Idea was this:
(For the Humans IMC)

Cleric: 6 ranks Heal, and Knowledge (Religion), Base Fort Save +3, Base Will Save +3
Fighter: 6 ranks Climb, Jump, Swim, or Ride (Choose two) BAB +3 Base Fort Save +3
Hexblade: 6 ranks Knowledge (arcana), Spellcraft, Base Will Save +3
Monk: 6 ranks Balance, Jump, Tumble, Knowledge (Religion), Base Fort Save +3, Base Reflex Save +3, Base Will Save +3
Paladin: 6 ranks Knowledge (Religion), and Ride, BAB +3, Base Fort Save +3
Psion: 6 ranks Concentration, Knowledge (psionics), Psicraft Base Will Save +3
Psychic Warrior: 6 ranks Knowledge (psionics), Psicraft, Base Fort Save +3
Rogue: 6 ranks Disable Device, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Spot, and Tumble, Base Reflex Save +3
Magician: 6 ranks Concentration, Knowledge (arcana), Spellcraft, Base Will Save +3

Looking back, perhaps it was a bit harsh, but I had two reasons:
1) They were starting at 3rd level, and so had some leeway to start with, this was only for picking up new character classes after character blevel 3. The standard Monk Paladin multiclassing restrictions were removed, and humans gained two skills which were always class skills from 1st level.
2) I have a player, who always, always min/maxs to such an incredible degree, the other players had started teasing him about it. It really was getting on everyone elses nerves. So we wanted something to highlight the character in game through the rules, rather just being a cherry-pick of strangeness in order to obtain L33T-skillz.

I also enforced a downtime for training, and this was longer if it was a new class you were obtaining.

An unintended side-effect was that it was very difficult to multiclass after the fact into Rogue.

 

[airwalkrr]

The way I see it though, rogue should be one of the easiest classes to multiclass into.

 

[Nyaricus]

The way I see it though, rogue should be one of the easiest classes to multiclass into.

really? In all honestly, all of D&D classes are in fact 'Hero' Classes - that is, no mere pickpocket is a rogue; usually they are an Expert with appropriate skills.

Point is, no class should be an easier to multi-class into than any other one.

 

[green slime]

The way I see it though, rogue should be one of the easiest classes to multiclass into.

Why?

 

[airwalkrr]

At least to me, the rogue represents a "self-taught" set of skills. The archetypal rogue was raised on the streets living by his wits alone, which explains why he picked up so many skills that most folk have little use for, like picking locks, searching every nook and cranny, and pick-pocketing passers-by. So it just seems like it would take less "training" to become a rogue, whereas a fighter has to train with arms and armor, a paladin or cleric has to go to monastic school or something. I'm not saying this is how it is supposed to be as the rules clearly have no such requirement for such characters, but it would make sense to me if that were the way it was.

 

[dante58701]

I think the classes are just fine the way they are.

Ive never had a need to mangle them.

Of course I mean that in the most polite way possible.