Replacing dead party members

[Dooks Dizzo]

We had a guy get VERY close to death, it's not that hard.

2 HP and then hit for 15 damage damn near killed him right then and there. We got him back up in time, but next round the coup de grace was inbound.

As a DM I was well known for smacking people one last time after they had dropped into the negs. I mean finishing off a fallen enemy is something many monsters would be keen on.

But really it's because my players started pulling crap like playing dead and such, then popping up later in the fight and wrecking stuff.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Being that this is the first 4E game I am running that deals with player death, I have a few questions:

In previous versions of the game, I allowed replacement characters to come in at (average party level)-1. Will this be a problem in 4E?

The only main issue is unlike 3rd edition: you don't get more Exp for being a lower level.
This creates a never ending cycle: he will never be the same level. Always a level lower.

 

[PHGraves]

Just one question - how did the characters end up dead anyway? Were they left for dead by the rest of the party? Did they fail their 3 death saves? So far my experience with 4e has been that dropping unconscious and then standing up again is pretty much par for the course - I think only one party member has not been knocked into the negatives at least once, and many of us have made it to our second death save, but noone has even had to make a third (we're pretty quick in trying to get people back up again).

I'm not trying to crap on your fun here - I'm trying to get some perspective so we can help you avoid this situation again.

The first death happened when the Dragonborn Paladin knowingly triggered an ambush meant for the whole party. He took enough damage in the first salvo to drop well below the point of no return.

Death number two was caused by the Tiefling Warlock showboating. After repeated warnings, he decided to remain adjacent to opponents when firing his Eldritch Blast. two hits from guard drakes (one crit) later and we bid farewell to the not-so-sweet prince.

We nearly had death number three in the same encounter, but luckily it was the Warforged Paladin. Three saves in a row came up 5 or less but were changed to 10 thanks to his racial ability.

The whole thing, truly, came about due to the lack of party healing. Low CON scores all-around generally saw to Second Winds being used pretty quickly in the combats. A pair of zombies getting lucky when attacking the fighter used up the two Lay on Hands for the day. All of this contributed to the Dragonborn (who was not touched in any of the previous encounters) deciding to go ahead of the party (all of whom were bloodied) and spring an obvious ambush.

After the night's festivities, I talked with the group about the need for tactics and\or healing. This is where their desire for a Leader role came from.

 

[Sensai]

The player of the Warlock wants to play an identical character (did I mention he is 14 CON, 18 CHA, Infernal Pact, and has no Infernal powers except Hellish Rebuke?). Which hard alcohol should I use to deaden the pain I feel inside each time I read his character sheet?

This quote made me laugh so hard that I joined the forums just to thank you.

God dammit, I cannot stop laughing.

 

[eamon]

Losing a level in 3e, if the campaign was fast-paced, was a temporary set back since you'd eventually catch up completely (due to the accelerated XP gain from being a level behind - not only does a lower level char need less XP to level, he also get's more). I wouldn't dock a level in 4e for a new character. Rather, simply use the normal rules for making higher level characters, and ensure that the new character has less wealth. Because of the 20% sale value of magic items, this will eventually be irrelevant, but initially be relevant.

Alternatively, follow raise dead; and dock him some gold and a temporary penalty.

 

[the_bruiser]

My replacement character rules have always been some variation of the following across 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition (we're still gearing up for 4th):
* You must choose a new race and class (vs. old character). This encourages player diversity.
* You cannot choose the same class as an existing party member. This encourages party diversity.
* You start out at minimum EXP a level below your previous character (min 0). This encourages players to be careful and keeps the 'double flip' from happening where a replacement jumps off a cliff to 're-free up' the original race/class.
* For every level you are below the maximum level character in the party you get an extra 25%. For example, if the highest level character is 8th and you're 6th, you get 50% bonus EXP until you are only one level behind, then 25% until you are the same level.

For us it's been simple, effective, and non-controversial, since everybody agreed with my 'diversity' goals... and a few players have wound up loving characters they would never have built had their first four favorite classes not already been taken.

 

[thundershot]

For 4E, we decided early on...


Standard Array or Point Buy (really the same thing, since you can "buy" the standard array)
Replacement characters must be a different race and class.
The entire party has a single XP total. When it hits the next level, they all go up.




Chris

 

[questing gm]

My players started with the following group (1st level):

Human Fighter (Two-Handed)
Dragonborn Paladin
Warforged Paladin
Tiefling Warlock (Infernal)
Human Wizard (Staff)

While there were some issues (Paladins had a combined WIS mod of +1, Warlock has 14 CON and 18 CHA), all of the characters were 'concept' characters based more on fluff than rules.

After a few sessions, the Dragonborn Paladin and Tiefling Warlock are both dead while the survivors are now 2nd level.

Being that this is the first 4E game I am running that deals with player death, I have a few questions:

In previous versions of the game, I allowed replacement characters to come in at (average party level)-1. Will this be a problem in 4E?

The surviving party members want to dictate the roles of the new characters (one Leader, one Striker). Should I allow this, or force them to accept the characters made by the players?

The player of the Warlock wants to play an identical character (did I mention he is 14 CON, 18 CHA, Infernal Pact, and has no Infernal powers except Hellish Rebuke?). Which hard alcohol should I use to deaden the pain I feel inside each time I read his character sheet?

Page 30 of the DMG

Character Death

[...]

When a character does die, it’s usually up to the players as a group to decide what happens. Some players are perfectly happy to roll up a new character, especially when they’re eager to try out new options. Don’t penalize a new character in the group. The new member should start at the same level as the rest of the party and have similar gear.

You might want to discourage players from bringing a clone of the dead character in as a “new” character, adding “II” to the character’s name or altering it slightly, but otherwise leaving the character unchanged. It’s obviously artificial and interferes with the players’ sense of the fantasy world as a believable and coherent place. On the other hand, copying a character might be fine depending on the style and seriousness of your game, and it does keep the game moving forward with no delay.

If the characters have gained at least a few levels, the death of a character is the loss of a significant investment of time and energy. Fortunately, dead characters can be brought back to life. The most common way is through the Raise Dead ritual described in the Player’s Handbook (page 311). Usually, a dead character means that the party has to take at least 8 hours to use the Raise Dead ritual and rest afterward. [...]