Replacing warlock invocations?

[Jeff Wilder]

First, let me confirm that warlocks, over the course of 20 levels, get to choose 12 invocations. Is that correct?

If so, what's the deal with the second full paragraph on page 7?

The first sentence says that any time the warlock learns a new invocation, he can also replace another invocation he knows. The warlock learns a "new invocation" at 2nd level, right? But the rest of the paragraph illustrates the idea using only levels 6, 11, and 16. Why?

My guess: the writeup of the class includes a very poor name ("new invocation") for the replacement ability gained at 6th, 11th, and 16th levels. The first sentence of the problem paragraph is referencing the replacement ability, not actually any time the warlock gains a new invocation.

Or am I missing something?

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

First, let me confirm that warlocks, over the course of 20 levels, get to choose 12 invocations. Is that correct?

Yes, by the time they reach 20th level, they will have 12 invocations at their disposal.

If so, what's the deal with the second full paragraph on page 7?

I also think things are worded poorly, but here's what I can understand:

the "New Invocation" ability simply announces the level of invocation (least/lesser/greater/dark) that the warlock may choose when he gets a new invocation (levels 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 13, 15, 16, 18, 20).

At 6th level, the warlock gains access to lesser invocations. At 6th level, the warlock learns a new invocation, which can be of least or lesser power. He may also change the 3 invocations of least power to any other invocation of least power also.

AR

 

[Azaar]

Yeah, they'll have 12 invocations by 20th level. More, if you choose the Extra Invocation feat, though the break-down there is that you could get 2 least, 2 lesser, and 1 greater (assuming you pick up the Extra Invocation feat from 6th level on through 18th), so 17 total then.

As far as the new invocations... the invocations are broken down roughly by equivalent spell level, as per the descriptions on pp. 130-136. Least invocations are typically 1st and 2nd level spell equivalents, lesser 3rd and 4th (occasionally 5th), greater 5th and 6th (maybe as high as 7th), and dark is 7th-level equivalent and up through 9th.

The breakdown in the chart is every 5 levels, so starting at 6th level you can learn lesser, 11th greater, and 16th dark. The new invocation blurb in the special abilities column signifies that. However, at those levels, you can also begin swapping out an invocation of the grade below your maximum invocation grade. So, at 6th level, you can swap one of your least invocations for another least invocation (for instance, you decide to swap out Bafeful Utterance for See the Unseen), and do so again at 8th and 10th levels. At 11th level, you can continue swapping out least invocations (as above), or you can start swapping one of your lesser invocations for another lesser invocation (dropping The Dead Walk for Flee the Scene, for example), and do so again at 13th and 15th levels, respectively. At 16th level, you can choose between least (as the above example), lesser (as the above example) or greater invocation (drop Chilling Tentacles for Vitriolic Blast, for example), and do so again at 18th and 20th levels, respectively.

That, at least, is how I interpret it given what's written. I don't think you can switch out more than one invocation for another at any of those given levels, but I could be wrong about that. It reads to me, though, like it's meant to be just one invocation at a time, not a lesser and a least invocation being swapped at the same time.

 

[Particle_Man]

I think that the character can only swap out invocations three times in her entire career. Once upon gaining access to lesser invocations (when she can swap a least for a least), once upon gaining access to greater invocations (when she can swap out a lesser to gain a lesser or least, or swap out a least for a least) and once upon gaining access to dark invocations (so she can swap out a greater for a greater, lesser or least, or swap out a lesser to gain a lesser or least, or swap out a least for a least). This happens at 6th, 11th and 16th levels.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I think that the character can only swap out invocations three times in her entire career.

That's the way I read it, also. It matches up better with the way things work for the spontaneous casters.

That paragraph on page 7 is quite a damned mess, though.

So ...

(1) 12 invocations gained over 20 levels.

(2) At 6th, 11th, and 16th levels, gain the opportunity to choose increasingly powerful invocations.

(3) Also at 6th, 11th, and 16th levels, gain the opportunity to swap a single new invocation for one previously gained.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Ah. I see what you mean now...

 

[DM_Matt]

First, let me confirm that warlocks, over the course of 20 levels, get to choose 12 invocations. Is that correct?

If so, what's the deal with the second full paragraph on page 7?

The first sentence says that any time the warlock learns a new invocation, he can also replace another invocation he knows. The warlock learns a "new invocation" at 2nd level, right? But the rest of the paragraph illustrates the idea using only levels 6, 11, and 16. Why?

My guess: the writeup of the class includes a very poor name ("new invocation") for the replacement ability gained at 6th, 11th, and 16th levels. The first sentence of the problem paragraph is referencing the replacement ability, not actually any time the warlock gains a new invocation.

Or am I missing something?

By RAW, pretty clearly not.

But there is no logical reason that it wouldnt be possible, so why should you actually care?