Request for Comment: Hero Points

[Haffrung Helleyes]

I really don't like them

I don't like Fate/Hero points at all.

The game is already tuned to produce an outcome where the PCs almost always succeed, but there is a small chance of failure. With Fate Points, the PCs get dooevers in the infrequent moments when fate doesn't go their way. Rather than making the game more fun, I think they remove the chance of failure for competent players, and therefore dramatic tension.

Ken

 

[Anguish]

I don't like Fate/Hero points at all.

The game is already tuned to produce an outcome where the PCs almost always succeed, but there is a small chance of failure. With Fate Points, the PCs get dooevers in the infrequent moments when fate doesn't go their way. Rather than making the game more fun, I think they remove the chance of failure for competent players, and therefore dramatic tension.

Tell that to my paladin who's walking around with three negative levels right now due to a couple deaths. Odds of making it through the next three weeks without flubbing an otherwise fatal saving throw without his stash of Action Points are slim.

Interestingly, I'm finding this party (now at 11th level) is using their APs less and less frequently. At lower level I'd use them like candy, to actually get anything done. Now that to-hit values actually hit much of the time, it's less important.

 

[Wicht]

Hmm, the thing I'd be worried about is the "too many random points" thing - in Curse of the Crimson Throne we used Action Points and the AP gave Harrow Points and it was a PITA keeping them straight (though some of that was that the HP benefits varied by chapter).

For our rise of the Runelords game I printed up some action point tokens and some hero point tokens (which were bigger). To spend the points these were handed in. Thus no book-keeping or remembering. I need to make some new ones for our Legacy of Fire game we are in because I am finding that it is tricky sometimes remembering who has what left.

 

[Wicht]

I don't like Fate/Hero points at all.

The game is already tuned to produce an outcome where the PCs almost always succeed, but there is a small chance of failure. With Fate Points, the PCs get dooevers in the infrequent moments when fate doesn't go their way. Rather than making the game more fun, I think they remove the chance of failure for competent players, and therefore dramatic tension.

Ken

I like them for adventure paths if for no other reason the Adventure path makes more sense if the party more or less survives from the beginning to the end of the path.

I've also introduced them into a PbP game I am running of the Crown of the Kobold king when it became apparent that the module as written was a death-trap and the party was all going to die on the first floor if steps weren't taken to give them a fighting chance.

 

[mxyzplk]

Okay, here's how they're shaping up. I'm considering whether to just do these or also do Action Points.

Infamy Point Effects

Use an Infamy Point no more than once an encounter to:

1. Choose the result of any single roll
Attack, ability check, skill check, saving throw, caster level check, crit confirm...
2. Act out of initiative order
Move your usual turn up to "now"
3. Get an additional standard action
Usable whenever during your turn
4. Cast a bonus spell
Swap: You know but don’t have memorized today - uses a spell slot
Fork: You have already cast today - doesn't use a spell slot
5. Declare that a weapon or spell attack missed you
Anything that requires a hit roll
6. Throw off a condition (possessed, feared, paralyzed, charmed...)
For the rest of the encounter if it's a long term/perm thing
7. Use a feat or a class ability from one of your classes you don’t have
Have to qualify for the feat
For one round or one use, whichever comes last
8. Pull off a cool stunt automatically
But this isn't superheroes - limit it to what a human could arguably achieve
9. Other game effect on request
10. Limited narrative rewrite – introduce a story element, have someone show up at an opportune moment, have just the right piece of equipment around

You can also use an infamy point anytime to plain old avoid certain death, though there will likely be permanent impact of some kind (scarring/disability, equipment loss, other). You can use multiple infamy points in collaboration with the DM to add/change larger story elements, though the DM is usually up for interesting suggestions without spending points...

Gaining Infamy Points

Every character starts with two. You get one each time you level up and are awarded ones by the DM whenever you do something significantly badass which would add to your fearsome reputation. This does not have to be evil, it could as well be good, but should be impressive enough to get the commoners talking... "Did you see that guy slaughter everyone on the deck of that Chelish naval ship on his own?" "Did you hear those guys are the only survivors of an attack by a ghost ship full of unkillable skeletons; they blew up the ship to escape?"

 

[DonTadow]

I lifted the action point system from Fantasycraft for my pathfinder game. I did a review at rpgnow, and it is the best action point system I"ve read, and I get to read a lot.

Your players start off with a set number of action points a game. Thedm gets his own set. Action points are used to add a die to rolls, confirm crits, confirm failures, and change things slightly in the pcs favor or against the npcs. If you really want to kick it up a notch, u can throw in skill failures and crits as well (to minimize the hoarding of cards).

The system is detailed on what happens, without being too detailed. Plus I love the idea of getting rid of crit confirmations without adjusting other things in game (or putting the npcs at a disadvantage).

 

[prongbuck]

I use a deck of these Storytelling game cards:

Atlas Games: Charting New Realms of Imagination

I deal 3 to each player at the beginning of the session, they are allowed to trade amongst each other and each player may play 1 of the 3 cards. I deal a new set of 3 cards at moments I deem appropriate, scene transitions, or a couple encounters before a big boss fight, etc.

It is up to the players to interpret what a card could do and as long as their reasoning is somewhat sound pretty much anything goes. As the DM I reserve the right to say no if an interpretation is to far out there.

Some examples of the cards are sword, fly (like flying not a fly ), parent, enemy, storm.

Some examples of the cards in play:
- The sword card has been used to make a miss into a hit, confirm a critical, aid in disarming an opponent
- The poison card was used to slip something into a drink to knockout a player who was gambling away the parties money at a party (in this case it was the mage playing the card so I said ok since he has some knowledge of nature, had it been the fighter who has no knowledge of nature I most likely would have said no)
- The storm card was played to bring down a torrential rain storm to obscure the parties tracks as they were being tracked by a group of orcs
- The fly card was played during a game so that by a ladder happened to be near by when the players needed to scale a castle wall.

About 1/4 of the cards are unusable as they are cards related to the Story telling game itself but the other 3/4 have a picture and a title related to fairy tale stories, which, with a few exceptions, are also themes/items that appear in the fantasy genre. It also comes with some blank cards so you can create your own cards.

The art is good, the fairy tale style may not appeal to some, there is also a dark fairy tale expansion that adds more, darker, cards.

You can see an example of some of the cards for the basic game here:
ONCE UPON A TIME A story telling game

I have found these cards work really well for my group, they like having the option of playing their cards in combat, or to change up/modify/interact with the story in interesting ways, it keeps me on my toes and it gives my players another way to interact within the game.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Take a look at how Star Wars Saga Edition uses the Force Points. you can add 1d6 (or 2 or 3d6 after certain levels) to different rolls, but more importantly - and more useful - you can use one immidiately on dying to merely knock yourself unconcious. That is to say, if you were about to go into the deep negatives, it instead puts you at 0.

On the other hand, also keep in mind that, in SWSE, combat can and typically is VERY deadly, so there's that to balance it out.

 

[AJCarrington]

You might also want to consider the "Action Dice" mechanic found in Fantasy Craft:

Heroes frequently get themselves into seemingly impossible
binds, yet they just as frequently manage to save the day. They
defy the odds, evade deadly attacks at the last possible moment,
find the strength to push on when it looks like they’re down
for the count, and generally benefit from uncanny fortune. In
Fantasy Craft, such thrilling twists of fate are made possible with
action dice.

Each character starts each session with a pool of action dice,
as shown on Table 1.4: Career Level (see page 27). Additional
action dice may be gained from various character options, and as
GM rewards for playing in character, taking chances (especially
heroic ones), furthering the story, solving problems, entertaining
the group, and otherwise improving everyone’s experience (for
more information about action die rewards, see page 365).
Action dice may be spent in any of the following ways. Unless
a rule says otherwise (such as the Sage’s wise counsel ability),
characters may only use these options on themselves.

There’s no reason to hoard action dice — all action dice not
spent by the end of each gaming session are lost. ​

For reference, a 1st level character has (3) d4 action dice and a 20th level character gets (6) d10 action dice. While it may be a little over the top for you setting/campaign, one can always adjust the quantity and die to suit.

Regards,

AJC