Resist versus Protection

[Anubis]

Why is Resist Energy 2nd-Level and Protection from Energy 3rd-Level? Resist Energy is about ten times more powerful at any given CL.

By CL 11, Resist Energy gives resistance 30 and can thus block up to 33,000 damage (30/round, 110 minute duration) while Protection from Energy caps at CL at 120 damage. Although it soaked absolutely all at once, it still doesn't come close to the power of Resist Energy.

Resist Energy, by CL 11, allows you to explore the Elemental Plane of Fire at your leisure. If you try that with Protection from Energy, you'll get immolated within one minute.

Given all that, why would anyone be foolish enough to cast Protection from Energy? I see no need for it. I would never in a million years take it over the 300-times-more-powerful Resist Energy.

 

[Shin Okada]

Say, you are a 10th-level caster. You see a huge (young adult) red dragon is approaching to you. Which spell would you better to cast on you? Resist Energy? Or Protection from Energy?

The dragon breath on you. The damage is 10d10 fire with DC 24 for half damages. Assume you fail on the save (it is a tough one for a 10th-level caster type). You will get 55 fire damages in average. Dragon may breath another breath before you and buddies kill it. If you guys let dragon live long enough to use breath weapons 3 times or more, usually, all of you are sent to outer planes.

If you have Resist Energy on you. Now you have Resist Fire 10 for 100 minutes. Fine. You now got 45 fire damages. Then 45 damages again by the 2nd breath.

If you have Protection From Energy on you, that absorbs up to 120 pts. of fire damages. Now in the same scenario, you will not be hurt by the breath of the dragon.

 

[AuraSeer]

Given all that, why would anyone be foolish enough to cast Protection from Energy? I see no need for it. I would never in a million years take it over the 300-times-more-powerful Resist Energy.

They serve different purposes. One spell is designed to offer moderate protection over a set period of time. The other offers total protection, up to a set amount of damage.

If you're going to wander around in the Elemental Planes, or walk for an hour across inch-deep lava, then resist energy is the way to go. But if you're going to get breathed on by a dragon or blasted with a meteor swarm, then protection from energy will give you a much better chance of survival.

 

[Infiniti2000]

But if you're going to get ... blasted with a meteor swarm, then protection from energy will give you a much better chance of survival.

Definitely not. The average damage of meteor swarm, per ball, is 21hp. 30 points of energy resistance will almost guarantee that you take no fire damage from meteor swarm. While protection from energy has a similar capability, it will be mostly used up after a single spell.

What the OP says has merit. I think resist energy gets too powerful too quickly when you compare it to protection from energy. Maybe protection from energy should have a higher cap or perhaps last longer. On the other hand, I mass resist energy is far better (and broken IMO).

 

[Moon-Lancer]

People keep talking about going to a fire plane with resist energy. I thought lava does 20d6 damage. Even at 30 points of resistence, you will still take an additional 30 points of fire damage. Whats really frightining though is fireball caps at level 10d6. resist energy 30 will pritty much block that.

Personaly i trust nothing but Energy immunity. Draconicon. It lasts for hour/level.

 

[Artoomis]

Protection is better, certainly at lower levels, at protecting from the big blast.
Resist is better at the on-going effects sort of thing.

Now you might have an argument that either one of those does not scale well, which is also a valid discussion, but one needs to look at it both ways - earlier and later in a career. Let's start with some rules:

...The subject gains energy resistance 10 against the energy type chosen, meaning that each time the creature is subjected to such damage (whether from a natural or magical source), that damage is reduced by 10 points before being applied to the creature’s hit points. The value of the energy resistance granted increases to 20 points at 7th level and to a maximum of 30 points at 11th level. ...

...When the spell absorbs 12 points per caster level of energy damage (to a maximum of 120 points at 10th level), it is discharged. ...

...The blade deals 1d8 points of fire damage +1 point per two caster levels (maximum +10). ...

...deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6)...

So let's use those to compare.

Level 5: Resist: 10pts/round, Protect: 60 pts, Flame Blade d8+2 (avg 6.5), Fireball 5d6 (avg 17.5)
Level 10: Resist: 20pts/round, Protect: 120 pts, Flame Blade d8+5 (avg 9.5), Fireball 10d6 (avg 70)
Level 15:Resist: 30pts/round, Protect: 120 pts, Flame Blade d8+7 (avg 11.5), Fireball 10d6 (avg 70)

This is not a perfect analysis of everything, but it does appear that even at 15th level Protection gives you only 20 pts if fire damage from two fireball while Resist lets 80 pts gets through. Resist is plenty good enough for total ptoectiuon form Flame Blade at all levels, though.

It does indeed seem that they legitimately serve two functions, as mentioned before. Of course, what you normally want is BOTH spells.

 

[dcollins]

Why is Resist Energy 2nd-Level and Protection from Energy 3rd-Level? Resist Energy is about ten times more powerful at any given CL.

Note that this problem existed in 3.0, but was greatly exacerbated by the 3.5 revision. In 3.0, resist elements only blocked a flat 12 points per round. The fact that in 3.5 it quickly scales up to 30 points makes the prior problem even worse.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

One could also ask if you are allowed to take spells from the Complete Arcane. They have a 3rd level spell called Resist Energy, Mass that acts as Resist energy bu effects one creature/level within a close range.

Now, the character I created to use that spell will be fighting off many dragons (high-level campaign, of course). But personally, I'd rather burn a 3rd level spell and give everyone resistance than a 2nd level spell just to give my character resistance or even a 3rd level spell to give just myself protection. In this circumstance, knowing that dragon breath is going to be one of the major damage sources our aprty will face, I thought Resist Energy Mass was the way to go - save everyone's hind-end a little ratehr than my own alot!

However, that is a very specific circumstance and I knew that going in. In most cases - I think the Protect is better because most people only need to to protected for a short amount of time and then the threat is over. This is great for the Protect spell. The 2nd level Resist spell really only shines in cases where the damage is going on for many rounds and it is small amounts of damaged meant to whittle a non-resistant character down slowly - probably even longer than what would normally be measured in rounds..

 

[beaver1024]

This is yet another example of no playtesting in our exalted improved 3.5. Energy resistance in 3.0 was applied per round rather than per attack. Additionally Prot from Energy was uncapped. Hence at higher levels Resist Energy gradually became less useful and Prot from Energy gradually became more, which is as it should be. In 3.5 energy resistances applied per attack instead of per round, which greatly enhanced Resist Energy and they capped Prot from Energy. If you're going to suffer multiple energy attacks, you're almost always better off with Resist Energy.

 

[AuraSeer]

Definitely not. The average damage of meteor swarm, per ball, is 21hp. 30 points of energy resistance will almost guarantee that you take no fire damage from meteor swarm.

Fair enough, that was a bad example. I forgot that in 3.5, fire resistance always applies against each ball separately. That does not invalidate my argument: protection from elements is better against a single, large damage source.

Consider my other example, draconic breath weapons. Assume you're an 11th level wizard, so both spells are at max effectiveness, and you know you're about to face a young adult red dragon (CR 13). It will use its 10d10 breath weapon at least once, possibly twice. Which spell do you cast, if you can only pick one?

The breath weapon does an average of 55 points. Protection from energy will probably defend against two breaths entirely, leaving you unharmed. But with resist energy you're likely to take 25 damage if you fail your save; one of those will leave you hurting, two may kill you dead.

The difference becomes even more pronounced as the attacks get bigger. If the dragon is older than Young Adult, or perhaps can Maximize its breath weapon, you could see 100 damage from the first breath. Protection is still a complete defense at least once. But if you're using resist and you happen to fail the save, we're looking at a pile of ash where the wizard used to be.