Ressurection and Drama "Don't worry, we'll rez you after this"

[Henry]

But not everyone in my campaigns are devout followers... of any god let alone the good ones. I can just as easily imagine most people not jiving with the whole sitting in a circle singing Kum ba yah afterlife-thing. "Get me home Alice and off to the local, there ain't no forty-nine virgins waiting for me up there let me tell ya".

I can see certain devout souls doing the Buffy thing but not the majority. The only logical way I see it is to restrict access to resurrection in some way. I don't see too many people doing the resurrection-abstinence dance given the option.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

It doesn't have to be a "devout vs. not devout" issue -- in Buffy's case, she was constantly hounded, pulled in all directions, she lost both her true loves and her mother -- her life was constant sacrifice and pain. She goes to a place of rest and happiness, and gets pulled back to the life of sacrifice and pain. She wasn't a devout believer in ANY religion -- and yet she winds up in what she figures is "heaven."

For most PCs, afterlife means "game over, man." It means coming up with another character, and rejiggering all your stats, etc. However, wouldn't that be a neat character motivation -- the rigorous adventuring life, always being called to save the world, and then you die, and then get brought back from pure happiness? You go suicidal, or go with total reckless heroic abandon, in the hopes of winning the afterlife again? After all, with all that heroic adventuring, wouldn't someone win a place in a happy afterlife, regardless of their religious affiliation? It's not like you could just commit suicide or have someone kill you to wind up back in Valhalla, after all...

 

[Herobizkit]

Death Is Only The Beginning.

How about throwing PCs for a loop and go all Greek on them - have the Underworld exist, and give mortals the ability to travel there and back again.

Or, erect a City of the Dead ala the Ghostwalk campaign setting.

 

[Quickleaf]

One area where D&D is conspicuously silent is the cultural aspect of resurrection - this is a rich source for campaign world development for the DM.

For example, what if it's considered black magic to pierce the veil into the Underworld to bring someone back (for allegedly selfish reasons)? What if one of the cautionary tales told to all wizards concerns a reckless wizard who risked everything to bring his dead love back? How would a returned soul be treated by their old friends and community? Would they even have a life to go back to? Would the ritual caster be at risk of reprisal from templars/inquisitors? And what if the returned soul was marked in some way? What if they had to form an evil pact with the Lord of the Underworld to return, such as killing others to go to the Underworld in their stead? Or what if the return to life was a harrowing experience which could drive the returned one insane for a time...or worse?

This kind of a world could have resurrection theoretically available to anyone at the right prince, but it would not feel like "vanilla D&D" at all, and would provide cultural reasons for limiting access to resurrection.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

One area where D&D is conspicuously silent is the cultural aspect of resurrection - this is a rich source for campaign world development for the DM...

Awesome stuff!!!

...This kind of a world could have resurrection theoretically available to anyone at the right prince, but it would not feel like "vanilla D&D" at all, and would provide cultural reasons for limiting access to resurrection.

In other words resurrection is incredibly significant (and could even have an entire religion built around it!) As against this possible conservation at a small D&D tavern earlier in the day:

George: Morning Frank

Frank: Heya George, I thought I'd just come in for a heart-starter. Much planned today?

George: My party's out adventuring.

Frank: Evil Wizard?

George: Nah just a dragon. How about you Frank, you look a little down on surges.

Frank: Yeah, rough night.

George: Perhaps we could catch up tonight then? What you got on?

Frank: Well we’re going down into the dungeon again at midday, then I have an appointment with an evil witch at four, and so I’ve booked in a Rez at five, and then a trip to the accountant at six to sort out the expected treasure parcels. So any time after that should be cool.

George: Evil witch hey, they can be nasty with you beaten up and all. If you don’t mind me asking, where are you getting the Rez done?

Frank: Over at Kord’s actually. I’ve been finding Pelor’s a little pricey of late.

George: Yeah, I noticed they upped their rates. Perhaps...

Innkeep: ...sorry ta interrupt guv, couldn’t help overhearin. Me wife’s got into that Rezzin’ caper, bought a ritual book, staff and a hat. Lowest rates in town if you don’t mind me saying.

Frank: Gees thanks for that [tips hat to the innkeep, waves to the wife in the kitchen] I’ll have to keep ya wife in mind.

George: [pulls Frank aside whispering out of range of the Innkeep’s hearing] Actually I’d be careful with that. My cousin started up a Rezzing franchise over in Hommlet, going OK and then he tried to bring back Big Tom advertising the standard price.

Frank: Big Tom?! As in Paragon Big Tom?

George: Yeah. Anyway the ritual failed and you can imagine how his party took it.

Frank: Crap. Last ya heard of ya cousin heh?

George: Yeah, killed him dead I think, as in dead dead. [Frank shakes head in sympathy] So just be careful of these fly-by-nighters [taps finger to nose]. Nothing stuffs up your week like a failed Rez.

Frank: [nods] Yeah ... I might stick with Kord’s for the moment, although when I hit Paragon, I know my accountant’s going to be into me about the price hike. I might get him to price some options for me this arvo. Anywho seeya tonight George.

George: [waves goodbye] Until then Frank.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[lexoanvil]

herrman i can see your point in treating rezzing as a business but if you restrict it to say "heros/fated/special soul" kind of thing death is still a relivent factor. also just because an adventuring party can afford a rez does not make them common place. overall the people in a campaign who could afford such a cost should be in the minority.aka depending on the setting likely less than 1% remember basic laborers make less than a gold a day. i fail to see why people have this much of a problem with it. will hungor the tavern keeper get rezzed when he falls down some stairs? no. will lithgor the a dragon slayer rez his compainion with a portion of the vast dragon hordes he has collected in spending years protecting kingdoms with have access to it? yes. as far as my players go if they want to pay the cost or undergo a quest to bring a character they like back i highly encourage it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You could make resurrection interesting...instead of the usual rules:

1) To come back from the dead, you must defeat in solo combat the spirit of equivalent ability who is trying to be born so that he/she/it can live a life of achievement.

2) Other PCs can influence the fight by "praying for the soul of their comrade": mechanically, by using Aid Another to influence die rolls, once per PC.

3) If the PC wins by a significant margin, he returns from the dead, healed & refreshed, with a one-time +1 luck bonus to a roll within the next month of campaign time. If the battle is close but the PC wins, the PC comes back as per the text of the spell. If the PC loses, the player must make a new character- that soul's time in the material world is done...at least for now. The PC could be brought back against his will as an Undead being or at the will of some higher power.

 

[On Puget Sound]

We had our first PC death in 4E last week (the dumb twit wandered off on his own in search of a fight, and found one). At level 3, 500 gold is a pile of money, so we discussed whether to sell the deceased's magic axe or his magic armor. We decided on the axe, since having a powerful weapon is probably what made him think he could go fight monsters by himself.

 

[Quickleaf]

We had our first PC death in 4E last week (the dumb twit wandered off on his own in search of a fight, and found one). At level 3, 500 gold is a pile of money, so we discussed whether to sell the deceased's magic axe or his magic armor. We decided on the axe, since having a powerful weapon is probably what made him think he could go fight monsters by himself.

Your post made me think about the commercial nature of death in D&D, and ways to embrace it and run with it.

What if the issue of "resurgences" (raising people from the dead) is a hotly debated theological issue of the time, much like indulgences in the Catholic Church?

Some temples engage in the practice of “resurgences”, treating raising the dead as an important revenue stream. While it is expensive, the real costs are hidden in the contract drawn with the temple officiates; the revived soul is absolved of all sins and is treated as property of the temple, being expected to serve the orders of the temple’s high priest. Should the revived soul disobey the temple, it is treated as abrogation of the contract, and their lease on life rapidly falls apart as their fate catches up with them. Those who serve the temple well for an agreed upon period of time are granted autonomy from the temple.

Wow, this thread has given me all kinds of ideas.

 

[Nebulous]

I just gave the PCs a Raise Dead scroll at 8th level and kind of wished i hadn't. For 500 gp, they have no fear of death now. The -1 penalty to rolls for a few encounters is a paltry penalty, and a difficult one for a DM to enforce if a player decides to "forget" it, or really does forget. Of course, they could always just pay an NPC to do the same thing, but at least then the whole raise dead thing was at least relegated to an outside source they had to hunt down. Now, it is completely in their hands.

What i'd like to change is the penalty to dying, so sure, it can be easy to come back, but there are some changes to your mind/body/soul that have a lasting effect.

I'm not talking about losing a level like in 3e, that was friggin demoralizing, and i don't want to really lose Ability scores because of the ripple effect.

Just a flat penalty. Maybe -5 permanent HP loss, or -5 to a Skill, player choice. Something to reflect you've come back different. And getting raised 10 times over the course of your life will have a dramatic effect on your character instead of something just hand waved "yeah, i died again, big deal..."

Or a story-based penalty for coming back, something died to the Death God in whatever campaign setting we use. I dunno.

 

[fuzzlewump]

Very interesting so far. I'm currently considering letting souls return, but the original body once dead can't be remade or restarted. Instead, they can return to specially crafted, er, robots, (warforged) which haven't been in creation for 500 years. You might be able to find one- in the infinite reaches of Mechanus...