Restricting Monster Movement
- Thread starter Lookoo
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Vegepygmy
First Post
A daylight spell will accomplish the same thing (and benefits the whole party). A daylight spell plus low-light vision (either the spell or having an elf with you) will effecively quadruple one's sight range to 240 feet.
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Good point, and Daylight has a 10:1 duration advantage, too.
The Ray of Exhaustion will probably hit, but the dragon will no doubt make the Fort Save. It will stop the dragon from running, but not double moving, which at a book speed of 150ft is still 300 ft.
Daylight will definitely expand our visibility, but it's also going to call attention to us from every direction. 240 feet of light in the Underdark will not go unnoticed. If the dragon moves 300 ft. back, a dwarf will have to run to keep the dragon at the edge of his site. Even then, the dragon has to be fatigued and some players will have to run just for the party to keep up.
Obviously, it's a big problem the dragon has Keen Senses: 120 ft. of Darkvision, double normal light, and 4x shadowy illumination. Its visibility allows it to cast spells before entering into combat or retreat and take advantage of our Daylight spell.
The general pattern right now is the dragon casts its buffs, comes in, and demands money. The first time we fought him. We got him low and then he ran off. Since then, we've basically been paying him because he's already buffed when he gets to us and we can't keep him on the ground.
The Wall of Force being cast at the last moment seems to really have potential to slow the dragon down for a round or two if we can do enough damage.
As to the monsters swallowing the characters, the fighters do get to cut themselves out - buried 20 feet of earth. Lately, we've all been carrying shovels.
Sound Burst seems like a good idea.
My thanks for all the ideas thus far.
Daylight will definitely expand our visibility, but it's also going to call attention to us from every direction. 240 feet of light in the Underdark will not go unnoticed. If the dragon moves 300 ft. back, a dwarf will have to run to keep the dragon at the edge of his site. Even then, the dragon has to be fatigued and some players will have to run just for the party to keep up.
Obviously, it's a big problem the dragon has Keen Senses: 120 ft. of Darkvision, double normal light, and 4x shadowy illumination. Its visibility allows it to cast spells before entering into combat or retreat and take advantage of our Daylight spell.
The general pattern right now is the dragon casts its buffs, comes in, and demands money. The first time we fought him. We got him low and then he ran off. Since then, we've basically been paying him because he's already buffed when he gets to us and we can't keep him on the ground.
The Wall of Force being cast at the last moment seems to really have potential to slow the dragon down for a round or two if we can do enough damage.
As to the monsters swallowing the characters, the fighters do get to cut themselves out - buried 20 feet of earth. Lately, we've all been carrying shovels.
Sound Burst seems like a good idea.
My thanks for all the ideas thus far.
The Ray of Exhaustion will probably hit, but the dragon will no doubt make the Fort Save. It will stop the dragon from running, but not double moving, which at a book speed of 150ft is still 300 ft.
Daylight will definitely expand our visibility, but it's also going to call attention to us from every direction. 240 feet of light in the Underdark will not go unnoticed. If the dragon moves 300 ft. back, a dwarf will have to run to keep the dragon at the edge of his site. Even then, the dragon has to be fatigued and some players will have to run just for the party to keep up.
Obviously, it's a big problem the dragon has Keen Senses: 120 ft. of Darkvision, double normal light, and 4x shadowy illumination. Its visibility allows it to cast spells before entering into combat or retreat and take advantage of our Daylight spell.
The general pattern right now is the dragon casts its buffs, comes in, and demands money. The first time we fought him. We got him low and then he ran off. Since then, we've basically been paying him because he's already buffed when he gets to us and we can't keep him on the ground.
The Wall of Force being cast at the last moment seems to really have potential to slow the dragon down for a round or two if we can do enough damage.
As to the monsters swallowing the characters, the fighters do get to cut themselves out - buried 20 feet of earth. Lately, we've all been carrying shovels.
Sound Burst seems like a good idea.
My thanks for all the ideas thus far.
Daylight will definitely expand our visibility, but it's also going to call attention to us from every direction. 240 feet of light in the Underdark will not go unnoticed. If the dragon moves 300 ft. back, a dwarf will have to run to keep the dragon at the edge of his site. Even then, the dragon has to be fatigued and some players will have to run just for the party to keep up.
Obviously, it's a big problem the dragon has Keen Senses: 120 ft. of Darkvision, double normal light, and 4x shadowy illumination. Its visibility allows it to cast spells before entering into combat or retreat and take advantage of our Daylight spell.
The general pattern right now is the dragon casts its buffs, comes in, and demands money. The first time we fought him. We got him low and then he ran off. Since then, we've basically been paying him because he's already buffed when he gets to us and we can't keep him on the ground.
The Wall of Force being cast at the last moment seems to really have potential to slow the dragon down for a round or two if we can do enough damage.
As to the monsters swallowing the characters, the fighters do get to cut themselves out - buried 20 feet of earth. Lately, we've all been carrying shovels.
Sound Burst seems like a good idea.
My thanks for all the ideas thus far.
Frank's suggestion of a Tanglefoot bag is a good one as well. If your DM is playing the dragon as a cowardly retreating type, why not?
Cast Fly on a few warriors and then Haste them as well - they can they fly at 90 and have Good manueverability. If they can get around the dragon, they can cut off avenues of retreat. With the dragon being an Average to Clumsy flier, they can certainly keep up with the dragon if it does not have straight lines to fly. They'll be "paying" a lot less in movement cost than the dragon for any sort of non-linear flying.
Summon a Planar Ally that has a good fly speed as well. Have a cleric cast Find the Path to find the dragon as well - maybe find its lair? Have some clerics cast Forbiddance (60 ft cube/level, or 12 60 foot cubes) - that will at least protect the party. How about all 3 clerics cast Blade Barrier - one creates the BB that is round, and the other two create flat walls - trap the dragon in a box of blade barriers.
Holy Smite would possibly leave the dragon blinded if it missed its save. Waves of Fatigue would leave it Fatigued with no save. Blindness/Deafness could blind it. Bestow Curse would give it a 50% chance of losing its action. Wind Walk could speed the party up to 600, doubling the dragon's double-move speed.
Cast Fly on a few warriors and then Haste them as well - they can they fly at 90 and have Good manueverability. If they can get around the dragon, they can cut off avenues of retreat. With the dragon being an Average to Clumsy flier, they can certainly keep up with the dragon if it does not have straight lines to fly. They'll be "paying" a lot less in movement cost than the dragon for any sort of non-linear flying.
Summon a Planar Ally that has a good fly speed as well. Have a cleric cast Find the Path to find the dragon as well - maybe find its lair? Have some clerics cast Forbiddance (60 ft cube/level, or 12 60 foot cubes) - that will at least protect the party. How about all 3 clerics cast Blade Barrier - one creates the BB that is round, and the other two create flat walls - trap the dragon in a box of blade barriers.
Holy Smite would possibly leave the dragon blinded if it missed its save. Waves of Fatigue would leave it Fatigued with no save. Blindness/Deafness could blind it. Bestow Curse would give it a 50% chance of losing its action. Wind Walk could speed the party up to 600, doubling the dragon's double-move speed.
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ElectricDragon
Explorer
Did I read it right that the dragon flew backward? Can't do it. Period. Dragons don't have that ability. With Hover feat, it has to spend a Move action first to hover, if it is already flying, then it moves at half speed (75 to 100 ft.) in new direction.
If it is on the ground it must first move at half speed to take off (45-60 degrees max) as a Move action; then it could Hover as another Move action, then change direction at half speed as a third Move action.
Forgetting the Hover, this would put it at the end of the round 75 to 100 ft. away from the front line toward the back line (so ~25 ft. away from back line?) and up 75 to 100 ft. (45 degrees) or 150 to 200 ft. (60 degrees). But the dragon would have to fly over the party at least once; not directly away from it. Against a dragon, the party should be spread out so the dragon may have to move two rounds to escape detection with a Daylight spell going from the back ranks. This would allow missile attacks and more spell attacks as it retreats. It is not until the next round that it can attain full speed.
All of this still puts it out of the party's visual range, but the aforementioned spells should deal with that problem. Daylight would be especially good as would a successful Faerie Fire on the dragon (of course with no druid this probably isn't an option). Only use the Daylight when the dragon attacks to deter visually outlining your party most of the time.
Unless the dragon has taken Frank's dreaded Practiced Spellcaster feat(s) then your casters should outshine the dragon's caster level and Dispel Magic and/or Greater Dispel Magic should debuff that critter easily.
I hope this helps.
Ciao,
Dave
If it is on the ground it must first move at half speed to take off (45-60 degrees max) as a Move action; then it could Hover as another Move action, then change direction at half speed as a third Move action.
Forgetting the Hover, this would put it at the end of the round 75 to 100 ft. away from the front line toward the back line (so ~25 ft. away from back line?) and up 75 to 100 ft. (45 degrees) or 150 to 200 ft. (60 degrees). But the dragon would have to fly over the party at least once; not directly away from it. Against a dragon, the party should be spread out so the dragon may have to move two rounds to escape detection with a Daylight spell going from the back ranks. This would allow missile attacks and more spell attacks as it retreats. It is not until the next round that it can attain full speed.
All of this still puts it out of the party's visual range, but the aforementioned spells should deal with that problem. Daylight would be especially good as would a successful Faerie Fire on the dragon (of course with no druid this probably isn't an option). Only use the Daylight when the dragon attacks to deter visually outlining your party most of the time.
Unless the dragon has taken Frank's dreaded Practiced Spellcaster feat(s) then your casters should outshine the dragon's caster level and Dispel Magic and/or Greater Dispel Magic should debuff that critter easily.
I hope this helps.
Ciao,
Dave
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
No, for flying there is a quasi-facing system. There's minimum forward speed and limits on how much you can turn per x feet moved. If you moved 50 ft east last round and have clumsy flight, you can't just start flying west at the start of your next turn. That's why there are entries for turning...
The dragon's easy flight bothers me a lot, too. Not only the grace it seems to possess, but also how you say you can't follow too easily because of sight limits in the dark. Unless the dragon knows the area it's flying in VERY well, how the heck is it plunging forward at 200+ ft in a 6 second round completely confident it won't be smashing its face into a rock wall? I mean, check out the Hampered Movement rules. Moving in poor visibility typically cuts movement in half. So how is the dragon sailing ahead into pitch darkness like that?
I think your DM is intentionally or unintentionally cheating. And please don't tell me DM's can't cheat. *sigh*
The dragon's easy flight bothers me a lot, too. Not only the grace it seems to possess, but also how you say you can't follow too easily because of sight limits in the dark. Unless the dragon knows the area it's flying in VERY well, how the heck is it plunging forward at 200+ ft in a 6 second round completely confident it won't be smashing its face into a rock wall? I mean, check out the Hampered Movement rules. Moving in poor visibility typically cuts movement in half. So how is the dragon sailing ahead into pitch darkness like that?
I think your DM is intentionally or unintentionally cheating. And please don't tell me DM's can't cheat. *sigh*
I would guess it's unintentional, as it's kind of complex and not in the same section as combat movement in the PHB (they have a whole section on draconic flying maneuvers in the Draconomicon) but i find it hard to believe that there are that many wide-open spaces underground where a dragon can double move more than 1 or 2 times without paying huge movement penalties for changing/reversing directions.
And, like I said, have a cleric cast Find the Path and have the spell locate the dragon's lair. Then, bring the fight to the dragon, prep energy resistance spells for its breath weapon, caste Haste so people are moving faster and get an extra melee attack, etc.
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