Retro Clones

[Insight]

Recently, I've been acquiring 1st ed AD&D books for the purposes of running the T1-4//S1-4//GDQ mega-campaign. This was spurred on by a Labyrinth Lord campaign I joined a month ago. I have been able to find all of the AD&D books at local used book stores, with the exception of the PHB, which, for some reason, has eluded me. I'm probably going to buy it on eBay.

The trick I'm going to have is finding the modules at a reasonable price. I'd like to get the originals, but it appears I'll have to settle for the packaged super-modules instead. I'll be scouting them out at Origins, that's for sure.

 

[Mythmere1]

One of the things drawing people to various retro-clones is that there are new and fresh product lines that can be used with the old games or directly with the clone rules, either way. BFRPG has a good line of modules, and they're free in pdf form. OSRIC is supported by Expeditious Retreat Press, which has a line of (I think) 8 different modules usable with 1e. Those are for sale. Swords & Wizardry has fewer full scale modules available than the above-mentioned, but it's supported by Knockspell Magazine and I think has more blogs than the other systems (most of which offer gaming resources).

For a sort of holistic snapshot of one clone (Swords & Wizardry, of course), this is kind of what it looks like:

1) A free pdf of the game (standard for most clones): Swords & Wizardry Core Rules (pdf)

2) A storefront ( Swords and Wizardry's Storefront - Lulu.com ) with 1 set of variant rules (S&W WhiteBox is JUST the 0e LBB rules), 2 modules, a resource book on weird magic, 2 issues of a magazine, a book of monsters (several hundred, 186 are completely new), the Quick Primer for Old School Gaming (free), and a book of 600 city encounters.

3) Forum: Swords & Wizardry Forums Index page

4) Free download page at website: Mythmere Games » Downloads

5) Blogs:
Skathros: The S&W Companion: Welcome to The Swords & Wizardry Companion
Grim: The Outlook is Grim
Spike: Ubiquitous Orcs
Bat: Ancient Vaults & Eldritch Secrets: the Old School Revolution is here
MikeD: sword +1
TheRavyn Beyond the Black Gate

So that's sort of what the outer and inner support network looks like for a retro-clone, in this case the one for 0e.

 

[ggroy]

Recently, I've been acquiring 1st ed AD&D books for the purposes of running the T1-4//S1-4//GDQ mega-campaign. This was spurred on by a Labyrinth Lord campaign I joined a month ago. I have been able to find all of the AD&D books at local used book stores, with the exception of the PHB, which, for some reason, has eluded me. I'm probably going to buy it on eBay.

The trick I'm going to have is finding the modules at a reasonable price. I'd like to get the originals, but it appears I'll have to settle for the packaged super-modules instead. I'll be scouting them out at Origins, that's for sure.

These days I'll pick up older D&D books I come across at garage sales, book fairs, goodwill stores, etc ... typically for a dollar per book. 1E + 2E AD&D, and 3E D&D books (but not 3.5E yet) show up every so often. The older basic D&D box sets don't show up as often.

The harder part is finding enough people who are interested in playing a regular game (ie. weekly, biweekly, or monthly) of 1E, 2E, 3E, or the basic D&D box sets. The few people I've found locally who have shown some interest in playing older D&D games, are typically guys who are over age 35 or 40. Most of my regular gaming groups have moved on to playing 4E D&D, after our 3.5E games were finished or dropped.

 

[Insight]

The harder part is finding enough people who are interested in playing a regular game (ie. weekly, biweekly, or monthly) of 1E, 2E, 3E, or the basic D&D box sets. The few people I've found locally who have shown some interest in playing older D&D games, are typically guys who are over age 35 or 40. Most of my regular gaming groups have moved on to playing 4E D&D, after our 3.5E games were finished or dropped.

Yeah. My regular 4E group won't touch AD&D from what I can tell. These guys are all 10+ years younger than I am and don't have any nostalgic reasons to want to play AD&D. Fortunately, I am in another group playing LL, and I'm pretty sure I can get most of them to try it.

 

[Spinachcat]

1) OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, Swords & Wizardry and Basic Fantasy are all free downloads so snag'em and read'em. Personally, my favorite is S&W because the game is boiled down to its raw elements and there is SO much freedom to houserule and develop my own "advanced" version of the game. I just ran Swords & Wizardry over the weekend and everyone had a blast.

2) Castles & Crusades is very well done. If a group wanted me to run AD&D for them, I would run C&C and use my old AD&D stuff for campaign stuff. For me, it's what I wanted in a third edition of AD&D with a few bumps that I have houseruled into obedience.

3) I highly recommend downloading Mazes & Minotaurs. It's a retro-reimagining instead of a clone. It's free and has tremendous amount of game support that is also free. Amazingly brilliant in so many ways. I ran it at the OrcCon convention in February and introduced it to 15 players over 3 events. Then at the Gamex con this past weekend, two people told me they started home campaigns!

M&M

 

[Treebore]

Most? What else besides the attack roll? And inverting the AC is just a stylistic choice, the progression in combat prowess is much closer to B/X. I'm currently running B3 with BFRPG and the only change I had to do was switch the AC for the characters since I much prefer descending AC. BFRPG is rquite close to B/X and has basically nothing to do with 3x. This is also the stated intent of the author as expresses in many posts.

Yep, plus he pretty much says this in his Knockspell interview, issue 2.

 

[Dyson Logos]

BTW, on the topic of eBay? Yeah, I won't shop there. Been burned on old RPG purchases no less than nine times.

Twilight 2000 1st ed boxed set
Dark Sun 1st ed boxed set
Moldvay Basic boxed set, mint in wrap
CyberPunk Night City Sourcebook with map
Gamma World third edition boxed set
Villains & Vigilantes module collection
Black Lotus & Mox Jet

can't remember what the other items I got shafted over were now...

 

[ancientvaults]

Yeah. My regular 4E group won't touch AD&D from what I can tell. These guys are all 10+ years younger than I am and don't have any nostalgic reasons to want to play AD&D. Fortunately, I am in another group playing LL, and I'm pretty sure I can get most of them to try it.

I am not going to open up the "More than a feeling" post here by that troublemaker Maliszewski, but age is absolutely NO factor with these games. A friend's son, 16 years old, bought the 4e PHB and returned it, preferring to play Labyrinth Lord and now, this weekend, a bit of S&W as well with us old guys. Why? Because, for him, it is just easier to play.

I do honestly believe that any game that works for the group is the best version, whether it is 0E-4E or a retro-clone or something totally different. HOWEVER, age is not a factor and people play these simulacrums for reasons other than nostalgia. I was 5 when 0E came out and I am a rabid LL and S&W fan, having started with b/x (which LL is a simulacrum of) and I love the open sandbox feeling of Swords & Wizardry. I have run 4e and I don't despise the game, but it is not the game for me and my players all agree. If your mileage varies I respect that and will not talk down 4e, and I ask that people don't make assumptions about older versions of D&D or the retro-clones. We aren't all old geezers.

 

[Mythmere1]

We aren't all old geezers.

Yet.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

One of the things drawing people to various retro-clones is that there are new and fresh product lines that can be used with the old games or directly with the clone rules, either way.

This is *THE* draw, for me. I run OD&D or AD&D with the old books, so I don't really need the retro clones as game systems to be run (although I certainly see their value in that role for others). What I love is the availability of magazines that are directly relevant to my game, and adventure modules that match my tastes as well as being compatible with the system I'm running. I was in a game store yesterday, and there were new AD&D compatible modules (i.e. OSRIC modules) on the shelf. That's awesome. The retro-clones seem to have injected a new energy into the "old D&D" community (or perhaps provided a fresh rallying point);I think it's great.

My favorite retro-clones mirror my favorite D&D editions, which are original D&D and AD&D: thus Swords & Wizardry (I like White Box) and OSRIC.