D&D 5E Review of New Players Handbook Posted at Acts of Geek...

Yeah, after getting a paragraph or two into Part 2 I realized this reviewer not only had strong bias going in, but also had no clue about what he was talking about.

So I stopped reading then, and decided that Acts of Geek has become a site I will avoid. I prefer non-biased and open minded reviews on anything, and a modicum of knowledge about what they are reviewing.

PS: I realize that the views of this particular writer may not reflect the overall views of all the sites contributors, but hey, this is 2014 and there are a lot of sites competing for my patronage... first impressions can be a b****. :)
 

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Oh, the things she knows.

Dammit, Thaumaturge, I need my nose cola-free.

I think I would prefer the MM to be as close to the Hacklopedia of Beasts as possible since that's my high water mark for monster books in terms of flavor(both writing and art design)/content/quality.

The Hacklopedia of Beasts is my high water mark for unreasonable pricing! I'm glad someone out there feels like it was worth it, though. I really wanted to like Hackmaster 4th Ed.

I really like the condition sketches.

I'm guessing you loved the pages upon pages of nothing but text in 4e with powers? For the love of god do not listen to this guy wizards. The art is BEAUTIFUL.

I agree with the statement in the comments to the review that the line art is superior to a lot of the full color stuff. They opted for this really soft-edged broad-stroke oil painting feel that I simply do not care for.

...And the community is going to have a herd of cattle when they see the halfling.
 

  • "Opportunity attacks, disengaging is still a thing, and seems vague and nebulous, especially considering no grid, and ripe for arguments." Vague how? What's an example of ambiguity in these rules? They seem pretty clear to me.

    <snip>
  • "Cover is not an advantage, it is +2/+5 or can’t be targeted. More room for arguing." About what?
As I read it, the vagueness referred to is not in the rules, but in their application in actual play - that is, without a grid it is not clear who is within 5', or 10', or whatever, of whom. Similarly, I think this is why the reviewer thinks that the cover rules create "more room for arguing". The arguments that are anticipated are arguments about who is how far from what.

I assume that the reviewer prefers "zone" style rules (eg FATE, 13th Age) for "theatre of the mind" combat.
 


As I read it, the vagueness referred to is not in the rules, but in their application in actual play - that is, without a grid it is not clear who is within 5', or 10', or whatever, of whom. Similarly, I think this is why the reviewer thinks that the cover rules create "more room for arguing". The arguments that are anticipated are arguments about who is how far from what.

I assume that the reviewer prefers "zone" style rules (eg FATE, 13th Age) for "theatre of the mind" combat.

I don't get it. I've been playing theater of the mind since I started playing D&D. I have never experienced any arguments about anything involving positioning and movement.
 

I don't get it. I've been playing theater of the mind since I started playing D&D. I have never experienced any arguments about anything involving positioning and movement.
Just to be clear - you're saying that, in a context in which everything is worked out simply by description, you can't imagine someone being unclear about whether a particular PC is 5' or 10' from a particular enemy, or a particular pillar?

I can say that I've frequently had this issue, and have resolved it either by using a grid and token (pretty standard in my 4e game unless the layout is very simple) or by drawing a quick sketch map.

Here's an example, in dialogue form, of how uncertainty can arise:

GM: You are at the entrance to a large hall, 70' long and 30' wide, with two rows of pillars dividing the width of the room into thirds. The pillars are about 10' apart. A group of goblins - a dozen or so - is gathered at the rear of the hall.

Player: I move into the room as far as I can, but staying out of reach of the goblins, and take cover behind one of the left-hand pillars.​

From that description, how many of the dozen or so goblins can see the character without moving? Against how many does the PC have half or 3/4 cover? How many pillars are between the PC and the entrance? Between the PC and the nearest goblin? Between the PC and the furthest goblin?

The description does not provide enough information to answer any of those questions. That is the "vagueness and nebulousness" that the reviewer is referring to. The potential for arguments arises when the player starts debating with the GM exactly how many goblins his/her PC has cover from.

An argument is most likely to occur if the player believed that his/her action declaration satisfied both these descriptions - (i) my PC has moved as far into the room as s/he can while staying out of reach of the goblins, and (ii) my PC has cover from all the goblins - while the GM believes that, precisely because (i) is true, so (ii) must be false. The GM might reach this belief because s/he is envisaging the leftmost (from the PC's perspective) of the dozen-odd goblins actually has a clear line of fire to the PC hiding behind the left-hand pillar; or because s/he is envisaging the PC hiding directly behind the pillar (rather than to its left) and hence being exposed on her right flank to a goblin who is on the right side (from the PC's perspective) of the group of goblins.

There are ways of avoiding such arguments, of course. One is that the player just acquiesces to the GM's ruling. But that reduces immersion and player agency, as the player has in effect been led into a choice which makes no sense from his/her PC's point of view (because, after all, the PC could judge which goblins would have LoS to him/her, to what degree, by taking up a particular position behind a particular pillar).

Another is to allow takebacks based on clarification between the GM and player as to what exactly the player was hoping to achieve, and what the GM's conception of the ingame situation is (eg the GM explains that, to establish cover against all the goblins the PC will have to stay closer to the entrance of the hall, rather than closing as far as the initial action declaration suggested). But takebacks can be clunky in play, they obviously slow things down, and for some players they are also problematic for immersion.

Another is to use an imagined visual depiction: the GM describes the scene with geometric precision (ie quite unlike my example above), and everyone remembers and acts upon that description in making and adjudicating action declaration. But this is not really "theatre of the mind" in any meaningful sense - it is to an actual grid as blindfold chess is to chess played on an actual board. Of course, often the GM will be using an actual visual depiction, but just not making it public - in which case the "theatre of the mind" is purely in the players' minds, but not in the mind of the GM, who has some external visual representation (eg markings on a dungeon map).

I'm guessing that the reviewer doesn't find any of the above-mentioned approaches satisfactory except perhaps for the last.

When I used to GM Rolemaster I would use a mixture of the second and the last approaches - ie allow takebacks/consensus to establish what was going on, and if the positioning was going to remain tricky I would draw a quick sketch-map, with a few markings to indicate distances if necessary, thereby clarifying who was where and what the options for movement were. (Rolemaster is more forgiving for this than 5e, I think, because it doesn't have OA rules: it uses a variety of other mechanics, not dependent upon positioning, that create incentives not to disengage from melee. So you don't have to keep track of who moves into and then out of the reach of whom, you only have to keep track of departure and arrival points. It can have the same issues with cover, however, as the reviewer complains about in 5e.)
 



Just to be clear - you're saying that, in a context in which everything is worked out simply by description, you can't imagine someone being unclear about whether a particular PC is 5' or 10' from a particular enemy, or a particular pillar?

I can say that I've frequently had this issue, and have resolved it either by using a grid and token (pretty standard in my 4e game unless the layout is very simple) or by drawing a quick sketch map.

Here's an example, in dialogue form, of how uncertainty can arise:
GM: You are at the entrance to a large hall, 70' long and 30' wide, with two rows of pillars dividing the width of the room into thirds. The pillars are about 10' apart. A group of goblins - a dozen or so - is gathered at the rear of the hall.

Player: I move into the room as far as I can, but staying out of reach of the goblins, and take cover behind one of the left-hand pillars.​

From that description, how many of the dozen or so goblins can see the character without moving? Against how many does the PC have half or 3/4 cover? How many pillars are between the PC and the entrance? Between the PC and the nearest goblin? Between the PC and the furthest goblin?

First off, as a GM, after the Player described their actions, I would ask some clarifying questions to ensure that the Player's idea of the scene matched mine.

GM: Is your goal to attempt to maintain cover against as many goblins as possible, or to move into the room as far as possible? Keep in mind that due to the way the goblins are spread out, the closer you get, the more likely that some of the goblins will be able to see around the pillar, reducing your cover.

Second, Theater of the Mind style play is imprecise. There is an agreement, at least within my group, that we are specifically avoiding fiddly details of positioning and going for a more 'fast and loose' interpretation of the scene that ultimately depends on the GMs fairness and overall judgement. In other words, my players generally describe their actions with intent rather than specifics, and I respond with results.

For example:

GM: You are at the entrance to a large hall, 70' long and 30' wide, with two rows of pillars dividing the width of the room into thirds. The pillars are about 10' apart. A group of goblins - a dozen or so - is gathered at the rear of the hall, arranged in a semi-circle facing the entrance.

Player: I'd like to try and move into the room as far as possible, hiding behind pillars, while still maintaining cover from as many goblins as possible.

GM: You are able to move in 20', past the first row of pillars, before you realize that going any further would reduce your cover with regards to the goblins on the edge of the semi-circle. If you stop here, you'll still have cover from all the goblins, but be 50' away, or you can move up another 10' to the next row of pillars. If you do, you will maintain cover with 8 of the goblins, but against 4 of them, you'll only have partial cover. What would you like to do?

It's all about having a shared dialog, but with an agreement that what the GM states is the actual scene. This does occasionally require clarifying discussion, and even the odd take back from time to time, but generally those are pretty rare and I've learned to preempt that quite a bit with clarifying statements coupled with an 'are you sure?'...

Player: I'd like to run up to the goblins and attack with my longsword!

GM: As you prepare to run in, you notice that, due to their positioning, it would be very easy for the goblins to encircle you. Are you sure that you want to rush right up to them?
 

First off, as a GM, after the Player described their actions, I would ask some clarifying questions to ensure that the Player's idea of the scene matched mine.
Yes. Of the three approaches I set out in my post, this is the second.

If someone thinks that "theatre of the mind" in a system where movement, ranges etc are defined down to 5' increments, and which has OA rules based on those increments, involves vagueness and nebulousness, I don't think your example is going to change his/her mind. I think they'd take it to prove their point!

That's not to say that there's anything wrong with your approach: as I also posted, I used the same approach GMing Rolemaster. (But as I also explained, RM is more forgiving of the vagueness because it doesn't have OA rules.)
 

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