D&D 4E Revised 4E Rules for large groups

[Dredly]

I really like the idea of "just out of reach of a basic" HP value. That really improves on the "2 hits" idea, if you roll 2 1's for damage it would still die in my model, yours it would still be hanging tough because they have HP

Also getting caught in a weak burst wouldn't destroy them... i really like that idea and will use it in my next session without a doubt. I'll probably set them around 25 HP as I have a bunch of players that have +10 to attack damage

 

[Amaroq]

I really like the idea of "just out of reach of a basic" HP value.

That's a much better way of phrasing it. I was totally looking for "just out of reach of a basic melee attack, barely in reach of a lucky (maximum damage) at-will."

 

[Dredly]

That's a much better way of phrasing it. I was totally looking for "just out of reach of a basic melee attack, barely in reach of a lucky (maximum damage) at-will."

Just curious, what HP do you normally use? I'm pretty much set on 25 but If you've already play tested it and have found an optimal value that would be great.

I'm thinking my strikers do 1d10+9 on average, so unless they screw up it would be a 2 hit kill for them, the mage's bursts typically do 1d6+7 with encounters doing 2d8+7 so if they roll it almost perfect they could bring down a 23...

Maybe I'll set it at 22 instead, I don't think any of the players have a single basic attack that can do over 20 damage so that would require 2 hits...

 

[Amaroq]

I'd been looking at it as "A max-damage at-will should kill", so if you've got a couple characters at +10 damage, you might aim for something in the 17-22 range (depending on whether you see more 1d8+10, 1d10+10, or 2d6+10).

 

[Amaroq]

The other thing I'd think about is how often you see +'s group-wide .. For example, if the group has a Battle Standard that they're using for a +1 damage in almost every battle, factor that in .. if you more-often-than-not see plusses from other sources (e.g., zones, etc), factor those in, too.

Or just give 'em 25, but give them an equivalent to the "Zombie Weakness" feature, a critical hit automatically reduces them to 0 hit points.

 

[eamon]

Other things that slow down the game:

• Marks
• Immediate Actions that require some thought on when to use them
• Readied Actions + Delays
• Not knowing the defenses you're trying to hit.
• Powers that cause frequent changes in to-hit or damage
• Powers that cause effects that are resolved later

Basically anything that happens outside of your turn and isn't trivial: e.g. Dimensional Vortex (swordmage 3): it's an immediate action ranged attack. This requires serious interruption because it's a die-roll, and furthermore, it requires some thought (1/enc but usable commonly more often than that), and, finally, it's ranged, so it in turn can provoke OA's.

Powers that grant temporary bonuses and/or penalties really up the amount of administration needed. The constantly fluxing penalties on various enemies which further differs per target due to marks and/or cover/concealment coupled with the everchanging bonuses (ok, now you have this bonus but only vs. him - oh, no on all attacks or whatever) means that many attacks involve a time-consuming "did you remember this penalty/bonus?" phase.

In small parties, there will be a small selection of these kind of bonuses meaning that the same thing comes up all the time. In large parties, you'll see multiple leaders+controllers, and things get chaotic with different types of bonuses that may or may not stack and that have different limitations - not to mention that there are obviously more effects in-flight at any one time.

I'm not sure that'll fly in your group, but you could try banning marks (and that means essentially no defenders), and frowning on too many leaders. Add in circular initiative, and you should have quite a bit fewer interruptions each round, not to mention a less grindy party composition.

 

[Dredly]

One thing that a DM can do that has made a big difference in my large group (7 people) is show the init order to them. I did this by having them write out their char name on a piece of paper, then hanging it over the screen and when announcing next PC turn I would say "you are the next PC up" so they could hopefully make a decision about their next turn before it gets to them.

We lose a lot of time to people taking time to figure out what they plan to do before they finally do it.

 

[Amaroq]

Agreed, Dredly - we went with that at 4 players and it made a huge difference.

We use a white board and dry-erase markers, where we keep track of pretty much everything: initiative, bonuses, penalties, status effects, etc - it gives you a single place to look to remember all of those "oh I have a +2 to hit because of ..." things.

 

[Dredly]

Agreed, Dredly - we went with that at 4 players and it made a huge difference.

We use a white board and dry-erase markers, where we keep track of pretty much everything: initiative, bonuses, penalties, status effects, etc - it gives you a single place to look to remember all of those "oh I have a +2 to hit because of ..." things.

yeah that works as well, only issue is if the order changes or new mobs are added to the list 1/2 way through the battle.

We did our first session with MapTools this past week, it was fricken great. We used 2 laptops, one hooked up to my buddies 42" LCD and mine as DM.

everyone still performed all their actions in person like rolls, char sheets... etc but there was no map and no mini's to deal with. it was all right on the screen. really worked out awesome, but we also only had 4 players. Not sure how it will work with a larger group.