Revisionist game publishing

I am pretty sure he was listing example explanations, not different options. I could be wrong though.

I believe they are examples of possible explanations. They are all attempts to rationalize the dictated effects of mechanics upon the campaign.

When one is expected to create an explanation to justify the mechanics even when the mechanics may be so stupid that just thinking about it causes a headache it is certainly a case of the game attempting to serve the rules.
 

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With all these options the player realizes that all characters in the game world are mutable, customizable toons and moves on.

Yeah, but I just don't see scenarios coming up where people 'accidently' take the feat and have their character's race change without their intention to do so. That really does just strike me as a contrived scenario. Either the character is already playing a Dusk Elf, and the feat just enhances that, or they suddenly want to be a Dusk Elf, and they work with the DM to figure out how to explain that. Or they are playing a game that is entirely about min/maxing, and they take the feat without worrying about any logical inconsistency.

If the feat represented a sect, such as a secret ninja clan it would make a lot more sense. The flavor of the article goes out of its way to portray dusk elves as separate race with distinguishing characteristics and then proceeds to package that into mutable form as a feat.

If I decide to train out the feat later do I get to keep my dusky complexion?

Do you still consider your character a Dusk Elf? That's the question. Why are you retraining it out? Because you wish to no longer be a Dusk Elf, and have some reason for it? Or do you wish to remain a Dusk Elf and just want to use the feat slot elsewhere?

The thing is, the feat is intended to represent a way to mechanically enhance the background choices you have already made, or are in the process of making. This isn't the first such feat to do so. Feats that build on regional backgrounds from FR, the Wood Elf/Wild Elf/Sun Elf/Moon Elf feats, the Dhampyr or Deva bloodline feats, the Vistani feat, etc.

With all of these, the idea isn't that taking the feat alters your character to something new. No, the idea is that you are altering your character, and the feat provides a way to represent that mechanically. You can declare yourself a Vistani before taking the Vistani feat! And, similarly, if you take the feat and later retrain it out, you don't 'lose' your Vistani ancestry, unless you specifically want to change your character background and are working with the DM to do so.

Yes, sometimes you might lose a power or ability that it would seem strange to suddenly lack - but all retraining carries that element. Why am I suddenly less skilled with a sword when I train out my proficiency? Is that any stranger than your concerns? And if we can accept that level of character alteration for the benefit of character mutability, why is it not acceptable elsewhere?

If you really find it an issue, the rules have an excellent solution for you: Backgrounds. Create a Background: Dusk Elf. Make it a prerequisite for the Dusk Elf Feat. Same for the Vistani, and Dhampyr, and all the others. This way, the character doesn't have to take the feat at level 1 (when doing so might be a burdensome cost) - however, they do have to make that racial or cultural choice at level 1, and will have their character defined as such whether they have the feat or not. And they aren't even mechanically limited by doing so, since you are allowed to choose multiple background options, you just only get mechanical benefits from one.

So you can be a Dusk Elf Dhampyr from Luskan who is a Traveling Missionary, and have the Traveling Missionary benefit, but still qualify to take the Dusk Elf feat and the Dhampyr feats and any Luskan feats. Problem solved.

I think the rules are written as they are on the assumption that characters will be writing in those background elements without needing to define them by mechanical means (especially since backgrounds remain an optional rule). And as I tried to demonstrate above, I really don't see any legitimate possible scenarios in which a character takes or trains out the feat and finds themself forced into having their race change in the process of doing so...

Why was the cancel christmas option edited out? It was kind of funny.:lol:

After rereading it, I felt it might have come across as more harsh than I intended, so decided to veer on the side of politeness. Should have stuck with my first instinct! :)
 
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I believe they are examples of possible explanations. They are all attempts to rationalize the dictated effects of mechanics upon the campaign.

When one is expected to create an explanation to justify the mechanics even when the mechanics may be so stupid that just thinking about it causes a headache it is certainly a case of the game attempting to serve the rules.

I don't see any of that at all. They aren't explanations to justify the mechanics - they are examples of who might take the feat and why. The mechanics don't need justifying, and I'm not even sure what you mean by implying that. A character takes the feat to help mechanically show they are a dusk elf - what is stupid about that?
 

The flavor of the article goes out of its way to portray dusk elves as separate race with distinguishing characteristics and then proceeds to package that into mutable form as a feat.

This statement just doesn't make any sense to me. The full text of the feat you are referring to is:

Dusk Elf Stealth
Prerequisite: Elf
Benefit: All allies within 6 squares of you that do not have this feat gain a +1 racial bonus to Stealth checks.

To me, it does not seem at if this feat can possibly be described as "packaging" the "distinguishing characteristics" of the dusk elf race. What about the physical characteristics described in the article? What about the advice on playing a dusk elf? What about the dusk elf backgrounds the article describes? The Dusk Elf Stealth feat says nothing about any of those, and they seem far more relevant to defining a member of the race than one feat.

I guess I'm just not understanding why you think one feat is the only defining characteristic of dusk elves. I don't think it is at all.
 

Is this still the same 'I object to 4e's departure from simulation' attached to a 'Wait, my race didn't get a PC writeup then it did' discussion? Shouldn't it have forked more productively a while ago? :)

I had a different, though similar, problem to the OP the other day. I went to make a bard in a 'no Dragon magazine' game and the character builder identified my character as illegal after I unchecked Dragon. Cause I took 'Focused Expertise', their fix for one of the problems with implement and weapon expertise.

I guess when the PH3 goes out, it'll stop being illegal, but... eh.
 

So another productive discussion gets sidelined into an edition warring mess. Do you see the surprised look on my face?

I have actually thought about some of the issues brought up here, with the Minotaur, and the Kobold, and the Dark Elf, and have a really good solution for you guys:

Don't play a game you don't enjoy.

Seriously, if so much bugs you about these little things, then play what you want. And notice, I said a game you don't *enjoy*. I like playing 3.5 just fine, and would play it again. I doubt I'd enjoy it as much as some of the other systems I've played since we quit, though.

Add to that a request to not knock over my sandcastle because you think something is wrong with it. Admissions of a lack of system knowledge come quick, but so does criticism based on that lack of knowledge. I fail to see how this makes your opinion valid.

The OP has my sympathies. Nothing brings a session down than having to play a newly nerfed character. In the end, that's what this is all about. WotC re-evaluated Minotaurs and found them unbalanced as is, so they gave them a full PC writeup. This had the effect of reducing the OP's damage. This totally sucks, but it happens. In return, he gets an LFR legal race (whatever that does for him) and some feats he may or may not use. His frustration is understandable.

Unfortunately, I can't really fault WotC for how they did it. As has been pointed out, the article was not really an errata so much as it was a debut. Minotaurs existed in a proto-PC form, and with the debut they emerged as a more finely balanced race. Any time a player is using such material, such as playtest classes or Dragon Magazine feats that have yet to be finalized (Reaper's Touch) they run the risk of being nerfed. It is just part of the game.

Jay
 

So another productive discussion gets sidelined into an edition warring mess. Do you see the surprised look on my face?
Ahhh such an optimist.

Any time a player is using such material, such as playtest classes or Dragon Magazine feats that have yet to be finalized (Reaper's Touch) they run the risk of being nerfed. It is just part of the game.
Jay

I have been playing whatever game I was playing in house ruled form... since shortly after the dawn of D&D... the difference now some of my house rules maintain something in its "original" form ... the game is far more alive ;)
 

As far as Darkvision not being biological, but being a magical gift or trait...

Wouldn't it then be dispellable with Dispel Magic?

In 3e, SU fixes that entirely. Although it wouldn't function in an anti-magic sphere. EX ability would do it as well.

But, again, please don't mix the D&D definition of magical with what I was talking about. To me, darkvision, or whatever you want, is a non-natural abiliity, and to argue for or against based on concepts like consistency or biology just don't apply.
 

I don´t think there´s anything revisionist about flashing out placeholders (which weren´t meant for use by players to begin with) later on and changing some details along the way.
 

So another productive discussion gets sidelined into an edition warring mess. Do you see the surprised look on my face?

I have actually thought about some of the issues brought up here, with the Minotaur, and the Kobold, and the Dark Elf, and have a really good solution for you guys:

Don't play a game you don't enjoy.

You know what sucks worse then people pretending they are better because they play X game? People pretending they are better because they are so aloof from all the bitter edition warring, yet dive right into already testy threads with unsupported and poorly thought out pronouncements about how to solve everyone else's problems and make them better people. Turtlejay, no one asked you if you thought this was a topic worth discussing. At the risk of being glib, may I suggest: Don't post in a thread you don't enjoy.
 

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