Revisionist game publishing

[ExploderWizard]

This statement just doesn't make any sense to me. The full text of the feat you are referring to is:

Dusk Elf Stealth
Prerequisite: Elf
Benefit: All allies within 6 squares of you that do not have this feat gain a +1 racial bonus to Stealth checks.

To me, it does not seem at if this feat can possibly be described as "packaging" the "distinguishing characteristics" of the dusk elf race. What about the physical characteristics described in the article? What about the advice on playing a dusk elf? What about the dusk elf backgrounds the article describes? The Dusk Elf Stealth feat says nothing about any of those, and they seem far more relevant to defining a member of the race than one feat.

I guess I'm just not understanding why you think one feat is the only defining characteristic of dusk elves. I don't think it is at all.

It is not the only characteristic. That is the problem. If the stealth and related feats were tied to some sort of training or membership in a secret society then it would make more sense. Having a paragon tier wood elf just wake up one morning with a deep tan and other new physical features is kind of funny, especially if he decides to become a wood elf again at epic tier because he found a better feat.

 

[Coldwyn]

The retraining booth - line up here for some cosmetic surgery and a hint of brainwashing

 

[Scribble]

It is not the only characteristic. That is the problem. If the stealth and related feats were tied to some sort of training or membership in a secret society then it would make more sense.

To you I guess?

Having a paragon tier wood elf just wake up one morning with a deep tan and other new physical features is kind of funny, especially if he decides to become a wood elf again at epic tier because he found a better feat.

And exactly where does this feat indicate that any change to the character's physical appearance takes place upon taking/loosing this feat?

This comment is akin to saying- "Man it's so silly when a PC takes the whirlwind attack feat that he suddenly sprouts fuzzy purple wings and giant razor sharp bucked teeth!"

 

[ExploderWizard]

And exactly where does this feat indicate that any change to the character's physical appearance takes place upon taking/loosing this feat?

1)Dusk elves are represented mechanicallly by taking the dusk elf stealth feat.

2) Physical Qualities:
Dusk elves are a slight folk,and they look almost identical to thier elf counterparts. Where they differ is in complexion. Although common elves favor tans and browns, dusk elves are as pale as moonlight with fair hair and light blue or violet eyes.

Ok, so woody the wood elf wakes up one morning,takes a feat and is now a dusk elf. If he doesn't change, why not?

I have no problems with feat. Attaching the feat to a demi race is the dumb part.

 

[AllisterH]

1)Dusk elves are represented mechanicallly by taking the dusk elf stealth feat.

2) Physical Qualities:
Dusk elves are a slight folk,and they look almost identical to thier elf counterparts. Where they differ is in complexion. Although common elves favor tans and browns, dusk elves are as pale as moonlight with fair hair and light blue or violet eyes.

.

I think that's what everyone is trying to get.

You can BE a Dusk elf without the actual feat itself.

If I say "my character is a dusk elf", I don't HAVE to take the feat to represent that character. It's the same way with the Sun and Moon elves feat in Forgotten Realms.

 

[Scribble]

1)Dusk elves are represented mechanicallly by taking the dusk elf stealth feat

Ok, so woody the wood elf wakes up one morning,takes a feat and is now a dusk elf. If he doesn't change, why not?

Because you're misreading the sentence.

The sentence indicates that you represent a dusk elf by taking the feats- It does NOT indicate that anyone that takes the feat IS a dusk elf.

I have no problems with feat. Attaching the feat to a demi race is the dumb part.

I think a lot of people playing the game see flavor/mechanics combos and then get kind of "stuck," because they can't see past the written flavor idea. Suddenly the rule can only be used in conjunction with that flavor idea, and becomes useless if the flavor doesn't fit their concept.

I feel 4e tries to remedy this by separating a lot of the flavor from the actual mechanics.

Sure we get a whole lot of flavor about dusk elves, but when you get down to the actual rules, no where does it indicate that taking that feat = your complexion changes, and you suddenly become a dusk elf. All it does is grant you a bonus to stealth. That's it.

Do YOU want it to mean the character is a Dusk elf? You can do that if you want, and there's even a bunch of flavor to run with. The choice is ultimately yours though, and how to work that into your game is also yours.

If you choose to do so in a way that makes no sense to yourself... well that's an issue for another time man...

 

[ExploderWizard]

Because you're misreading the sentence.

The sentence indicates that you represent a dusk elf by taking the feats- It does NOT indicate that anyone that takes the feat IS a dusk elf.

So the stealth and related feats really have nothing to do with dusk elves then. Got it.

 

[pawsplay]

So the stealth and related feats really have nothing to do with dusk elves then. Got it.

Confusingly named, over-flavoured feat concepts are a core design ... remember Golden Wyvern Adept, anyone?

 

[Scribble]

So the stealth and related feats really have nothing to do with dusk elves then. Got it.

The mechanics are separate from the flavor. Do you like the flavor and want that to be a part of your game? Then YOU can choose to link them. If not, there's also a bunch of feats you can use in any way you want.

Thats what 4e does well in my opinion. It gives you an idea on how you can thematically use the rules in the game, but doesn't lock the rules to that theme.

(The feat also doesn't give any indication as to how or why the stealth bonus comes about. It could easily be just a ritualistic training that all dusk elves traditionally learn. Someone who's not a dusk elf could also learn the skills if they want. In the real world I can learn to speak German, but that doesn't make me German.)

 

[ExploderWizard]

(The feat also doesn't give any indication as to how or why the stealth bonus comes about. It could easily be just a ritualistic training that all dusk elves traditionally learn. Someone who's not a dusk elf could also learn the skills if they want. In the real world I can learn to speak German, but that doesn't make me German.)

It does indeed give an indication: prerequisite-Elf.