D&D (2024) Reworking the 2024 Hiding rules

[Hawk Diesel]

Moving quickly / dash / running out of combat gives disadvantage on stealth checks.

Reword it however you like.

Sorry, just to clarify. I wasn't commenting on your house rule, so much as the idea of why things may be different in combat versus out of combat, at least for D&D (other systems may be different). If you want to treat the different pillars of play in D&D as each being more consistent in how the rules interact with determining the outcome of different scenarios, that's cool. I mean, it's your table, you do you.

But when it comes to D&D and how the designers created the rules, it seems clear (at least to me) that the system is more robust for combat, and is less developed for the social and exploration pillars. Thus, rounds and actions taken within combat may not make the same amount of sense to apply outside of combat. But of course, YMMV and you can make changes in anyway that makes sense to you.

 

[KYRON45]

According to…someone on Reddit…
“The "Three Pillars" of modern D&D are not combat, exploration and social interaction. They are combat, character creation (90% of which is for combat) and spellcasting (90% of which is for combat).”

I’m converting to this religion.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Don't see why dash isn't allowed outside combat.

But the difference is sneaking 30' past a guard vs 60' past a guard with disadvantage.

Lucky for me, it's my houserule so I don't need to worry about exact wording.

Technically you are at disadvantage to sneak if you move faster than half your movement speed. Same with survival checks

 

[BruceWright]

Hmm... gonna rework it to this:

"You're hidden when I say you are."

Fixes everything!!!

 

[BruceWright]

“The "Three Pillars" of modern D&D are not combat, exploration and social interaction. They are combat, character creation (90% of which is for combat) and spellcasting (90% of which is for combat).”

60% combat, 40% eating snacks.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I don't think it is that complex. Also, I don't think "invisible" is a good condition for this.

Hidden: when a creature is Hidden, they can be neither seem nor targeted by a creature they are Hidden against. You are no longer Hidden if you leave cover or are no longer heavily obscured.

Hide (action): make a DC 15 Dexterity (Stealth) check while heavily obscured or behind at least 3/4 cover. On a success, you are Hidden to creatures who fail a Wisdom (Perception) check to find you (your check result is the DC).

I don't think it needs to be more complicated than that.

That’s the reality of how we run it at my table.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That is a reason I added that "DM can keep the condition going" clause.

That one HAS to come down to DM judgement, otherwise it's run 30 feet across a plain field while the opponent is looking at you!

I’m cool with that. Have you seen how quickly someone clears 30ft at a run? If you don’t even know that they’re there before they start running at you? They might as well have been 10 feet away for all you’ll be able to react in time.

IMO

The condition ends on you immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you with a Search action, you make an attack roll, you cast a spell with a Verbal component, or end your turn without out cover.
If you take the Dash action, you need to reroll your stealth check with disadvantage.

That gives people a chance to sneak past guards while they look the other way. Slink from one doorway to the next down a hall. But not walk though an open hall.

I don’t think I’d give disadvantage when dashing, but definitely if they try to hide again after dashing.

If you sprint out of cover to stab someone, they’re less likely than if you walk calmly to have the ability to react to you.

 

[mellored]

I don’t think I’d give disadvantage when dashing, but definitely if they try to hide again after dashing.

If you sprint out of cover to stab someone, they’re less likely than if you walk calmly to have the ability to react to you.

Attacking breaks stealth in all instances.

Didn't think disadvantage for running would be so controversial.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Attacking breaks stealth in all instances.

Right, that’s the general norm.

Didn't think disadvantage for running would be so controversial.

Yeah everyone see stealth differently.

I think I may have been unclear actually.

What I was saying is that sprinting shouldn’t force a second stealth check at disadvantage unless you’re actually trying to hide again after sprinting. If you are just dashing to get to your target, you’re moving fast enough that the stealth should hold all the way until you have made the attack.

 

[Yaarel]

A few people were wondering if I'd ever come up with revised Hiding rules for D&D 2024. I haven't, not really.

Instead, I've reframed the rules to better fit what I think the designer intention is.

However, the main changes I made to the wording are as follows:

###

Hide [Action]

With the Hide action, you try to conceal yourself. To do so, you must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity (Stealth) check while you’re Heavily Obscured or behind Three-Quarters Cover or Total Cover. You may not hide if any enemy has line of sight to you that isn’t hindered by those states; if you can see a creature, you can discern whether it has a clear line of sight to you.

On a successful check, you have the Invisible condition. Make note of your check’s total, which is the DC for a creature to find you with a Wisdom (Perception) check.

The condition ends on you immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you with a Search action, you make an attack roll, you cast a spell with a Verbal component, or you no longer fulfill the conditions to take the Hide action.

Your DM may choose to extend the condition if they decide all enemies are distracted and are still unaware.

####

Invisibility (spell)

A creature you touch becomes impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. The target has the Invisible condition until the spell ends. The spell ends early immediately after the target makes an attack roll, deals damage, or casts a spell.

####

Key takeaways:

• Passive Perception is no longer a thing
• Revised the line-of-sight wording so it's clearer
• The invisibility spell adds the text that was removed from the condition (so it now actually says you can't be seen!)
• You can't remain hidden if you step out of the conditions that allowed you to hide in the first place - if you step into the open, it'll end.
• These rules still don't explain if, when hidden, opponents know in which space you are.
• The 2024 revision to Spike Growth indicated that passive Perception no longer worked, as it explicitly calls out a Search action being the only way to notice the spikes, which tracked with some of the more obscure wording to the Hide action.

There are still improvements to be made to wording and the like. Feel free to suggest them!

Do I think this is 100% how it works? Nah - but it's my best guess at how it's intended to work!

Cheers!

The above are great clarifications. I will adopt them. (I guess the Hide action itself actively prevents Passive Perception.)

For the situation of a character hiding without concealment while others are "distracted", I have the character reroll the Hide action at the end of each turn.