Ride By vs Hold the Line.

[Inconsequenti-AL]

This is a situation that's about to come up IMC. Hope someone can clarify it!

Does Hold the Line allow you an opportunity attack when an opponent charges you as part of a ride by attack?

RIDE-BY ATTACK [GENERAL]

Benefit: When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can’t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack.

HOLD THE LINE [GENERAL]

Benefit: You may make an attack of opportunity against a charging opponent who enters an area you threaten. Your attack of opportunity happens immediately before the charge attack is resolved.

Normal: You only get an attack of opportunity against a character that exits a square you threaten.

Which way would you call it?

I'm wondering if the intention of Ride By is only to stop the Aoo from movement rather than the one from hold the extra aoo from the charging...

Thanks!

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I would say yes to the AoO b/c Hold the Line allows you to make it for an enemy entering your threatened space, whereas Rideby Attack allows you to avoid an AoO for leaving a threatened space. Also, HTL seems more connected to the charge action than the issue of movement. HTL gives you an AoO for anyone charging into a threatened square; what they do after is irrelevant.

 

[Felix]

HTL gives the attacked an AoO. Ride By guy eats crow.

Of course, if HTL guy has Combat Reflexes, then he would have gotten another AoO because of the movement of the mounted guy, were it not for his Ride By Attack feat.

So they both work.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Excellent stuff. Thanks very much...

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I'd actually rule it the other way. Ride-By Attack is the Mounted version of Spring Attack.

SPRING ATTACK [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can’t use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.

So Spring Attack negates AoOs from movement in general. I believe Ride-By Attack was meant to do the same thing for the mounted attacker. Hold The Line gives the defender an additional movement-based AoO, for moving into his threatened square. But it's still a movement-based AoO. So I'd deny the AoO.

But even if you ignore Spring Attack and just go by the text of Ride-By Attack alone, it states: "You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack." it doesn't say "you and your mount do not provoke an AoO for leaving a threatened square." Just "no AoO from the foe you attack."

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I would say Ride-by-attack trumps Hold the Line. Ride-by negates all AoO by the chosen opponent.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But even if you ignore Spring Attack and just go by the text of Ride-By Attack alone, it states: "You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack." it doesn't say "you and your mount do not provoke an AoO for leaving a threatened square." Just "no AoO from the foe you attack."

How would you consider that to interact with, say, a disarm attempt, or an unarmed strike, or the Power Lunge feat?

If I attempt to disarm on a Ride-By Attack, do I provoke an AoO?

-Hyp.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

How would you consider that to interact with, say, a disarm attempt, or an unarmed strike, or the Power Lunge feat?

If I attempt to disarm on a Ride-By Attack, do I provoke an AoO?

-Hyp.

You can only use Ride-By Attack in conjunction with the Charge Action, which precludes use of Disarm, Sunder, ect. So it's a non-issue.

Or am I mistaken in this?

Edit: Interesting. Double-checking the SRD, this is possible. I hadn't realized this. Personally, as I said before, I rule it based on Spring Attack. Meaning that yes, Disarm etc. would still provoke an AoO, but the movement would not. (And thus Hold The Line, which creates an additional movement-based AoO, would not.)

Going by just the text of the feat, though, I'd say no, no AoO. Ride-By attack prevents AoOs during the maneuver. Perhaps you're moving by too quickly, or the mount gets in the way, I don't know.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Having thought about it a bit: The only key difference I can see is that Spring Attack cannot be a charge, Ride by attack has to be...

I believe hold the line gets an AOO based solely on someone charging, rather than any move related factors. Wouldn't work against a spring attacker...

Ah well, it's the player who has the Hold the Line feat. Think I'll rule that he gets an attack. At least it means the first call on this rule will be in favour of the party.

 

[Felix]

Pendragon:

When you exit a threatened square, you provoke an AoO. When you exit. Ride by Attack negates this AoO.

Hold the Line allows you to use one of your AoO's when someone charging you enters your threatened square. This is not normally an AoO, but something provided by the feat.

Not all movement related AoO's are created equal.

Ride By: Negates "Exiting" AoO.
HTL: Creates "Entering" AoO.

Personally, as I said before, I rule it based on Spring Attack.

Two different feats, even if they were meant to do similar things. They have different mechanics. I'd suggest they be ruled seperately.