Rings of Power -- all opinions and spoilers welcome thread.

[Maxperson]

The other tolikenites I interact with have given nothing but praise for how the show has handled the material they have access to. So yes it is your opinion (and those who agree with you) that this is an in-name-only adaption.

Well there's your problem! You need to talk to Tolkien fans.

Much like @Parmandur's inability to accept 1 star reviews, I do not accept that there a fan of tolkien out there that has "nothing but praise" for what the show has done. I can accept that they like it, and even approve of a lot of it, but not that they have absolutely no issues with any of the changes and/or liberties taken.

 

[trappedslider]

Well there's your problem! You need to talk to Tolkien fans.

Much like @Parmandur's inability to accept 1 star reviews, I do not accept that there a fan of tolkien out there that has "nothing but praise" for what the show has done. I can accept that they like it, and even approve of a lot of it, but not that they have absolutely no issues with any of the changes and/or liberties taken.

And there's the "no true whatever"

 

[Maxperson]

And there's the "no true whatever"

That's pretty vague and not a response to what I actually said there.

That said, there is objectively a Tolkien style He wrote in a very specific way. If you do not write in the same way, you are not achieving what it is to write Middle Earth story in the Tolkien style. When you change both the style AND the facts of elves, humans, Dunedain, Sauron and pretty much everything except for the dwarves and harfoot(and even they have some fact changes), then you are writing a fantasy story, not a Middle Earth story.

There's not one true way to write a Middle Earth story. But there are some wrong ways to write one, and with two minor exceptions this series engaged in those.

 

[trappedslider]

Well there's your problem! You need to talk to Tolkien fans.

That's pretty vague and not a response to what I actually said there.

I was responding to the above-quoted comment and the fact that you choose not to believe that some fans actually have no issues.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

And there's the "no true whatever"

It seems the contrary. Maxperson is saying, as a Tolkien fan, he found the show unfaithful, while he's told that "Tolkien fans love the show". If anything, he's the one being said he isn't a true Tolkien fan, since he doesn't like the way Amazon dealt with it. When he jokingly mentionned that one need to talk to Tolkien fans, he meant "all of them (including me) not only those who agree with you".

I might be wrong, but I don't think Maxperson's point is that no true fan loved the show, but that a true fan (or anyone, for example someone who thinks fantasy is a puerile genre that deserve nothing better than one star, or that any dialogue not written in iambic pentameter isn't worth listening to) can give it one star and not be paid internet troll part of a conspiration against Amazon. Also, I don't think anyone here has any problem with people enjoying or disliking the show.

 

[Maxperson]

I was responding to the above-quoted comment and the fact that you choose not to believe that some fans actually have no issues.

So you were responding to a clear joke and something that very obviously doesn't at all mean that there's one true way by telling me something completely irrelevant to what I said? You just confirmed my statement of...

"That's pretty vague and not a response to what I actually said there."

 

[trappedslider]

Anyway, some cool info on the pitch meetings and what amazon offered as opposed to netflix

‘The Rings of Power’ Showrunners Break Silence on Backlash, Sauron and Season 2

Two first-time showrunners who landed TV’s biggest series give THR a behind-the-scenes tour as they navigate challenges even scarier than Mordor — from "patently evil" online trolling to massive industry expectations.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

 

[Maxperson]

It seems the contrary. Maxperson is saying, as a Tolkien fan, he found the show unfaithful, while he's told that "Tolkien fans love the show". If anything, he's the one being said he isn't a true Tolkien fan, since he doesn't like the way Amazon dealt with it. When he mentionned that one need to talk to Tolkien fans, he meant "all of them (including me) not only those who agree with you".

I might be wrong, but I don't think Maxperson's point is that no true fan loved the show, but that a true fan (or anyone, for example someone who thinks fantasy is a puerile genre that deserve nothing better than one star) can give it one star and not be paid internet troll part of a conspiration against Amazon. Also, I don't think anyone here has any problem with people enjoying or disliking the show.

I very specifically said in the response to @trappedslider that fans could love the show. I just don't think that a fan of Tolkien's books could have zero issues with the series. Even if they give it 5 stars, there's bound to be some sort of issue with the changes and liberties taken.

Something I didn't consider, though, is that there are Tolkien fans who have only seen the movies and this show, and they could watch the show without finding any issues, but that's because they are ignorant of Tolkien's style due to not reading the books. They'd only have the warped movies and show to go by, so nothing would feel out of place.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

I also think anyone that interprets "5 stars" as "great show" but not as "the greatest thing achievable, on par with the Sistine Chapel, Mondrian's composition n°10 and the Enneid" can give 5 stars despite noticing or having issues with a few things in a show, if those things don't detract from enjoying and liking the show. The "star system" often doesn't say how one is supposed to grade, so there can be some disconnect. Like, I guess on a 6-scale grading (like the American A to F system) I guess anyone finds natural to have a few student gets As, while on 0-20 scale system, there are some teachers who think it's perfectly normal when the best grade they give is 14, since they assess they would grade themselves at around 16 and they didn't learn anything new from reading the student's essay... with 20 being for "nobel prize level of work". So, sure, if everyone grading doesn't truly use the same scale, it's possible to be surprised by how the show is reviewed (irrespective of SOME action by trolls).

 

[Mercurius]

Forbes is a click bait farm thst bought the name of an old magazine. Pure trollage.

Now, it is true that big cross lije Amazon and Disney do seem to be weaponizing diversity as a hedge against criticism. However, since this is a 5 star show that is enormously respectful of the source material (speaking as a huge fan thst is deeply knowledgeable about Tolkien), in this case the trollage fully explains the review bombing, which is apparent when you consider the numbers from the verified critics.

To quote the Big Lebowski, "That's just like your opinion man." You keep stating, again and again, that this "is" a 5-star show, like it is some ontological fact, when what you're really saying is that you love it, and you can't understand why others don't love it.

Now I will give you this: Many of those that are giving it 1 star are probably doing so because of anger and disappointment. But again, I don't see a lot of obvious trolling - that is conjecture on your part.

As I said, I would probably give it 2, maybe 2.5 stars. I can see why an un-critical viewer might give it 3, but given the obvious problems with the script, acting, and plotting, I think 4 is a stretch and requires someone to ignore or not care about what makes good film-making, or deep knowledge of Tolkien and his work. 5? Well, I suppose everything is loved by someone.

So I'll go back to my original point to you: The phenomena of the wide divergence of opinions about this show is interesting in itself. Your answer to that is, "The show is amazing, and anyone who doesn't think so is wrong or, worse, a troll." My answer is more like, "There's no accounting for taste, but I'm still baffled by how knowledgeable fans of Tolkien and/or discerning film fans can give it more than 3 stars, but if some love it, more power to them - my view of Tolkien and quality film-making is very, very different."

As for the critics, I'd say that implies a combination of being "ideologically driven" and/or paid by Amazon to write good reviews (which there's been some examples of). The weird thing is that RT doesn't actually show any of the critics reviews, which is fishy in and of itself...