As long as you don't do something he disapproves, would add Numenoreans, if they hadn't all drowned to death. (I don't disagree with your point at all, just pointing that "promoting free will" doesn't mean "being good", as he can very well impose his views as harshly as Sauron when he feels like it, just he feels like it much less often).
Rings of Power -- all opinions and spoilers welcome thread.
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As long as you don't do something he disapproves, would add Numenoreans, if they hadn't all drowned to death. (I don't disagree with your point at all, just pointing that "promoting free will" doesn't mean "being good", as he can very well impose his views as harshly as Sauron when he feels like it, just he feels like it much less often).
The fall of Numenor certainly strains the idea. Dig deep enough in Tolkien and you run into all the problems of theodicy.
That said, Tolkien still tried to stick with the theme. Eru does not kill Ar-Pharazon with a lightning bolt or stop the Great Armament from reaching Aman. He allows the Numenoreans the chance to change their minds, even at the very last moment, when "Ar-Pharazon wavered at the end, and almost he turned back." Warnings are sent to Numenor, but they stop short of direct coercion; Eru will hint that this is a bad idea but he won't state it outright, nor will he simply destroy Sauron (who is aware of this and takes advantage of it by "defying the lightning").
If people think all this seems like sophistry to cover up an obvious case of Eru enforcing his will as brutally as Sauron ever did... well, yeah, I can't argue with that. "Obey this arbitrary-seeming restriction or I will smash your nation into the sea, only I won't ever straight-up tell you that until I do it" is not exactly a ringing endorsement for free will. The real reason for the fall of Numenor was that Tolkien was fascinated by the flood legend and had nightmares of being swept away by a great dark wave. Even so, he did his best to wedge it into his theology and make it fit.
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ART!
Deluxe Unhuman
I have a few thoughts, but please don't read this as nit-picking or attacking - I'm just proposing some polite counter-arguments
My impression is that her decision to jump off the boat about to enter Valinor was really no decision at all - she simply could not face life in Valinor. I can't remember how Valinor works in this regard or if it's mentioned in the show, but regardless of whether you have to live eternally with what you take there, or if Valinor sweeps away all your worries, Galadriel found the prospect unbearable. Diving intot he wide ocean was not a rational decision - in her state of mind, it was the only option. The show lays out how messed-up she was, and she comes to realize it eventually, too.
I think being found by Elendil fits into that Tolkienian pattern, although some bad things as well as good happen as a result - but then that's true of a lot of the Tokienien providence events. Plenty of terrible things happen as a result of Bilbo finding the Ring, but in the end it works out for the best. So, providence making sure Galadriel and Sauron meet at sea may not seem so great in the short term, but it begins a sequence of events that allows for Sauron's defeat.
I'm leaving this for the show to answer. Given the structure of the storytelling thus far, I'm not 100% sure they'll fill us in, but I'll reserve judgement for now.
But he's no longer a servant of the Great Enemy, and Sauron seems (not just in the show, but in the books) like someone who has learned from (some of) his former master's mistakes, or he just has a different approach to things.
OB1
Jedi Master
@ART! re: Sauron being in the ocean when Galadriel jumped ship, I think it's certainly reasonable that he was aware of who she was as she was hunting him for a few millennia. It wouldn't be inconceivable that he was aware that she was going to be shipped to Valinor (via his spies) and that she might not be able to give up her obsession with him and so set himself at sea in order to be able to rescue her. In this case, Galadriel's rejection of the providence of Eru (that she go back to Valinor) is the specific inciting event that will eventually allow the Rings to be created and all of the Evil that results from it. Of course, it all leads back to Sauron being destroyed at the end of LotR, but the point is that the Elves were supposed to have left middle earth long ago (or really, never have gone in the first place).
As for Elendil then finding the two of them, I'm fine with that being a first act coincidence that sets much of the rest of the story in motion. Numenor patrolled the seas, and while it could have been another Numenorian to find them, having it be Elendil tightens the story beats. It could have been another Numenorian who found her, and then she could have met Elendil in Numenor, but this early in the story there is no good reason not to have it be Elendil right off the bat. Just because we as the audience knows the importance of who he will become doesn't mean that Galadiel does.
Finally, we had established in the first episode that Galadriel specifically (and her company as well) could climb sheer ice cliffs and trek across frozen wasteland for years searching for Sauron. Don't know how that tracks with Tolkien's elves, but the show elves are clearly established as being able to survive extreme environments for long periods of time. That Galadriel believed she could survive swimming an ocean is a bit of worldbuilding here (as was Elrond's contest with Durin).
As for Elendil then finding the two of them, I'm fine with that being a first act coincidence that sets much of the rest of the story in motion. Numenor patrolled the seas, and while it could have been another Numenorian to find them, having it be Elendil tightens the story beats. It could have been another Numenorian who found her, and then she could have met Elendil in Numenor, but this early in the story there is no good reason not to have it be Elendil right off the bat. Just because we as the audience knows the importance of who he will become doesn't mean that Galadiel does.
Finally, we had established in the first episode that Galadriel specifically (and her company as well) could climb sheer ice cliffs and trek across frozen wasteland for years searching for Sauron. Don't know how that tracks with Tolkien's elves, but the show elves are clearly established as being able to survive extreme environments for long periods of time. That Galadriel believed she could survive swimming an ocean is a bit of worldbuilding here (as was Elrond's contest with Durin).
Parmandur
Book-Friend, he/him
It seems you misunderstood the stakes at the end there as perceived by the Eldar: Celebrimbor makes the rings, the Noldor can stay in Middle Earth and fight Sauron. If he doesn't make the rings...they have to sail to Valinor and end the entire Silmiril boondoggle once and for all, trusting the working of the Valar and the One to end Sauron's plans. So, Galadriel chooses to resist, which is her characterization at the start of the Season to the fall and crimes of the Noldor in chasing Morgoth against the will of the Valar and God in the first place. This whole series is going to be a sequence of falls, over and over again.
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Parmandur
Book-Friend, he/him
In regards to seeing Valinor from Numenor, in this case it really does mean good visual eyesight, as they were physically close at the time.
Parmandur
Book-Friend, he/him
They will rain vague about the exact timeline for sure, but the main point is that it has been long enough for most Elves to have gotten over it.
Regarding why Sauron happened to be in the right place at the right time...Season 2 will be starting with Charlie Vickers narrating Sauron's own version of his life story, so there is likely some missing info there thst will be cleared up. But, it seems to me, thar Sauron engineered that encounter to simulate a providential crossing of paths. Notice how "Halbrabd" immediately pegs Galadriel as a deserter, and how the convenient sea serpent goes away once it's services are no longer required. How would Dauron know Galadriel would even be on the boat? Well, one of the big dangling mystery boxes left is: why does Gil-Galad believe incorrect information about the fading of the Elves, and why is he aware of Mithril at all, and why is he so sure that it will solve the Elven situation? Maybe the same source of information for all or that, suggested sending Galadriel to Valinor. Maybe that source of information knew Galadriel couldn't actually go through withnit...and followed.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
No. No they weren't. It is factual that Valinor could not possibly be seen from Numenor. Otherwise the ban was impossible nonsense as they would be landing on Valinor before sailing out of sight of Numenor. The entire point of the ban was to keep that from happening. To keep Numenor from even seeing Valinor.
Numenor was about halfway, which made it out of sight of both shores unless you were using farseeing(clairvoyance).
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
And lose. Even with the rings they aren't strong enough, and they know that. The rings were at best a protection for some of their people, leaving the rest of their people and all the rest of Middle Earth to suffer at Sauron's hands.
The One doesn't exist and the Valar aren't coming back. She didn't have those options to even consider.
She didn't resist. She kept silent and allowed him to go free and doomed middle Earth. A complete 180 from the horribly bad characterization of her that they have been portraying since episode 1. It made no sense from any viewpoint.
Parmandur
Book-Friend, he/him
The ban was that they shouldn't come, not that they couldn't. They could.literally see it, pwr the text in question.
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