Rings of Power -- all opinions and spoilers welcome thread.

[Jfdlsjfd]

It's in character to jump out of the ship, rather than let go and pass into the West.

I think your point of view is that she's displaying hubris all along? Thinking, like the other Noldor, that she can do better than anyone else (the Noldor, and Morgoth, and the Numenoreans, and Isildur...) so you link that to this long theme along Tolkien's writing? Sorry if this appears to be a simple rephrasing of your position, but the show clearly resonated deeply with you and I am not sure why despite your explanations, so I am really trying to understand.

And yes, choosing to fight in defiance of destiny is the same mustake.

Except that in order to relate to hubris, the audience should see the act as having a chance of success. Feeding your own son to Zeus is hubris, but at no point the reader is expected to relate to Tantalus and feel empathy.

If we're to relate to Galadriel, I think it's necessary for her scenes to show her as divided on what to do and having the "overconfidence in her strength" pushing her toward the bad solution, without this solution being immediately stupid or suicidal or hateful. If htey want to set her up as a tragic character, they should endeavour to make the choices she makes relatable to the audience.

Galadriel's tragic flaw here, whi h setting up a lot if wins for Sauron, is trusting her own strength instead if divine grace and providence.

If she came cleanly this point, they wouldn't make the rings...which would mean she would have to return to Valinor. She is hiding the truth so that she can keep her vendetta alive.

Why? All are elves sharing the same tragic flaw (Celebrimbor above the two other), so the "tragic hubris" would be reinforced if they actually had the discussion. "OK, it was actually Sauron who instructed us on how to make rings. He clearly wanted us to create them, but let's create them nonetheless because, despite knowing it was Sauron's idea, we collectively know better and making the three rings will achieve our goal without him possibly interfering since he wanted us to create a single ring, we'll thwart him this way."

Here, they have absolutely no reason to avoid making the ring, that is presented as their only way to survive, using a method that was barely helped by someone that Galadriel says is a bad guy without really telling anything. As much as "jumping overboard" wasn't a decision the audience could relate to, except if the intended goal was self-destruction, in this case "not saying anything" deprives the ring-making decisions of its weight since neither Gil-Galad nor Celembrimbor have any reason not to create their race-saving rings, so the audience sees them as fooled by Galadriel more than by Sauron and it misses the opportunity for the trio to display tragic overconfidence (for that, they'd need to know and yet choose to do it).

Edit: also, granting race-saving power to the elven rings paradoxically lessens the hubris of making them, because it is "more overconfident" to say "we'll thwart Sauron for these nice jewels that are good-looking and valuable" because it would be sensible to not make the rings. Here, it's either "we do or we all die in a few years".

 

[Parmandur]

Okay. Then she tells them and they move forward anyway to save the elves who aren't immortal and need their mithril lithium batteries recharged by the rings. That's not a reason not to tell them.

Let's go over those choices.

Choice 1 is tell them about Sauron, make the rings and go west for some reason.
Choice 2 is, well, I'm not sure what "just due" means, but whatever it is, it doesn't stop her from telling them or the rings being made.
Choice 3 is tell them about Sauron, make the rings and continue the fight.

Remember, they don't know about the One Ring or that it's even possible, so nothing about her informing them about Sauron stops them from making the rings.

She didn't choose poorly. The writing was poor. There's literally no reason for her to have acted that way given either her personality from the books or her personality from the show.

Choice 1 is the rings not bring made, so it's Valinor or bust. Option 2 is just dying. Option 3 is obscure the truth, partially because she buys Sauron's "what will they think of you if they found out?" which I'd quite explicit in the text of the show. This is very true to what people who have been used and abused do: they obscand hide the abuse.

 

[Maxperson]

Choice 1 is the rings not bring made, so it's Valinor or bust.

Choice 1 couldn't happen under the current state of the show. Regardless of whether she tells everyone or not, the rings get made.

Option 2 is just dying. Option 3 is obscure the truth, partially because she buys Sauron's "what will they think of you if they found out?" which I'd quite explicit in the text of the show. This is very true to what people who have been used and abused do: they obscand hide the abuse.

She's not that stupid, either in the books or the show. There's no way with what they set up during the season that she does this. It's bad writing plain and simple.

 

[Parmandur]

This is a bleak depiction, but one that doesn't jive with her being the main protagonist of the show to be so emotionally and mentally broken.

It jibes very closely with Tolkien, though. Thus would be mid-tier emotional and mental dysfunction in the Silmarillion, which is full of massively screwed up stuff.

 

[Parmandur]

Yep. And to some in this thread, that behavior is picture perfect Tolkien.

I would watch a show or movie about Turin Turambar.

 

[Maxperson]

I would watch a show or movie about Turin Turambar.

Where did you get to that from what @Galandris said about Galadriel and my response? I'm baffled.

And as long as Amazon isn't doing it, I'd like to see that as well.

 

[Parmandur]

Choice 1 couldn't happen under the current state of the show. Regardless of whether she tells everyone or not, the rings get made.

She's not that stupid, either in the books or the show. There's no way with what they set up during the season that she does this. It's bad writing plain and simple.

Gil-Galad was an inch from packing everything up, before Elrond convinced him not to (Elrond's own tragic mistake). If she came clean, she feels she would be rejected for being deceived, and loses her path to revenge.

 

[Parmandur]

Where did you get to that from what @Galandris said about Galadriel and my response? I'm baffled.

And as long as Amazon isn't doing it, I'd like to see that as well.

That a depiction of a character as emotionally and mentally broken as this Galadriel is very, very Tolkien.

 

[Maxperson]

Gil-Galad was an inch from packing everything up, before Elrond convinced him not to (Elrond's own tragic mistake). If she came clean, she feels she would be rejected for being deceived, and loses her path to revenge.

No. She isn't going to get her "revenge" at the expense of Middle Earth. And she also wouldn't be rejected since she now has hard proof, not just "He's out there somewhere even though no one has seen him for a thousand years."

 

[Parmandur]

I think your point of view is that she's displaying hubris all along? Thinking, like the other Noldor, that she can do better than anyone else (the Noldor, and Morgoth, and the Numenoreans, and Isildur...) so you link that to this long theme along Tolkien's writing? Sorry if this appears to be a simple rephrasing of your position, but the show clearly resonated deeply with you and I am not sure why despite your explanations, so I am really trying to understand.

Indeed, hubris is the central theme of the while series: Numenor will fall to hubris, Khazad-Dum eill fall to Durin's hubris, Eregion will fall to hubris, etc. All the good guys are falling to hubris...though in the end that will get Sauron, too.